Crown macro and studio reference amps: what's the secret of their slam ?

[elac310]

The only commercial amp I currently use is a pair of mono Sunfires running the subwoofers; I got these from a "yard sale" at NHT a few years ago, where they were built in to one of their flagship speakers. No Crown Macros or Studios, but if I were given one, I'd gladly take it- it would be a fun thing to have in order to annoy the neighbors via increased SPL.

I'm not sure of the relevance of this to the topic.

A 40W amp from pioneer bought for a hundred bucks at the shopping mall would do. Since all amps sound the same and none is able to produce anything special sound-wise (if I read you correctly), why bother?? Mono sunfires: why are you wasting money ?

EDIT: I guess you can explain with figures why you choose those amps ?

 

[bear]

By way of a possibly more positive contribution to the perception of "slam" and perception in general, a few ideas. (most mentioned elsewhere before)

The idea that amps are indistinguishable below some THD threshold is likely incorrect. The work of D.E.L Shorter for the BBC and more recently the GedLee Metric both seem to point elsewhere, other than a raw THD threshold as what influences our audibility of amplifier distortion.

So put the basic "below some threshold" idea to bed. Maybe below some incredibly LOW threshold all amps BELOW that threshold are in fact indistinguishable, but that remains to be seen. AND more importantly it does not mean that these ultra low distortion amps are indistinguishable from some substantially higher distortion amps.

Consider this?

 

[bear]

Consider this.

I happen also to be a ham radio operator.

I can and have held conversations with other stations where other people in the same room as I am could not make out what was being said. The other station was more or less buried in the noise.

You still going to tell me that your hearing and my hearing are the same?

Your hearing is the same as everyone else?

What you hear from different amps is ALL THAT ANYONE will hear?
And, then that if MOST PEOPLE can't hear what that station is saying, then that station is not saying anything?

Are you all sure of this??

 

[sofaspud]

I was quoted within the post, but it reads more like a letter to the editor.
My posts are only the perspective of this third-party observer.

Although I do have the right to espouse my own philosophies and beliefs, even if they are reflected in a commercial product. Right?
In this case I don't.

I'm not aware of any censorship of submissions, but like everything else in this thread, it wasn't left unquestioned.

 

[elac310]

Lets try and collect the evidence so far.

The crown is a well designed and respected power house that will run flat out all day in a PA rig. What measurements there are appear pretty blameless.

You have very high sensitivity speakers that only need a few watts to drive to above safe levels (unless you live in a warehouse).

You think there is something special (slam) about the crown.

A number of people agree with you, but most appear to work or have worked in sound reinforcement.

There is no consensus on what 'slam' is or the part of the audio spectrum it lives in.

In tests you have perceived the crown to sound very different from other amplifier (which all sound similar)

Humans are known to be very susceptible to suggestion.

You have been told by people that Crown amps have 'slam'

you are really happy with your Amp/speaker combo

No one has come up with a credible technical reason for why the crown amp would be superior at such lower power levels.

Can anything be concluded from this? Well to me the following options come to mind
1. It might be the huge damping factor, but it is easy to reduce that in a test
2. you might have a ridiculously horrible reactance somewhere that needs an amp capable of ark welding. This should be measurable.
3. you believe your amp has slam so it does.
4. There is some distortion at very low output levels that is pleasing to your ear.

Whichever is correct it doesn't actually matter as you are a happy camper. I meanwhile am jealous cos I don't have a welding amp.

Thanks for trying to take the thread back on earth.

So far, the best explanation given (or correlation mentioned) for the slam of the SR1 and possibly the same family of amps (or some further Crown amps from other families) is the high amount of feedback applied and the high damping factor linked to this, resulting apparently in high woofer motion control.

A number of discussions have already addressed the DF story elsewhere; the usual conclusion is that there is none since and all possible positions have been defended: there are those who like a low DF as it leaves more room and freedom to their woofer (often, valve amp users who need some extra oomph in the deep bass), there are those who prefer a high DF for reasons of better bass control and precision etc.

Maybe someone from Crown engineering will pop up some day, and give his/her views on that.

Chris.

 

[SY]

Sorry if people are easily confused.

You managed to get every single fact wrong. I rarely comment on personal attacks against me, but since you've deliberately written it in a way as to come up on Google searches, I am compelled to in this case.

 

[SY]

Since all amps sound the same and none is able to produce anything special sound-wise (if I read you correctly)

You did not. I wrote precisely the opposite.

 

[kevinkr]

Thread closed for a cooling down period.