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Old 23rd January 2020, 01:27 PM   #4221
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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I wouldn’t eat the darker ones by the water but we tried a couple of the inland green ones in the smoker when I lived on my boat in Boca Grande FL (ca. 1990) they were actually quite tasty from what recall. They probably carry some nice diseases so take care skinning them out.

In case anyone’s interested, popped’em in the head with a pellet rifle.....makes it quite simple and doesn’t break any laws.

Last edited by mountainman bob; 23rd January 2020 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 04:30 PM   #4222
vacuphile is offline vacuphile  Netherlands
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it's cold today
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
It is 13F (-10C) here, really gotta get the new furnace up and running. But two 1,500 watt electric heaters keep my house at 65F.

So far it has taken just under 100' of new plumbing and more than 30 elbows. Doesn't quite mount like anything before. I did find the air seperator as shown on the installation instructions. Not a real common part, meaning even McMaster Carr doesn't carry one! Also had to add a back flow preventer and pressure monitor three way fill valve.

I have managed to get the natural gas line in and pass a pressure test. Also have completely plumbed in the domestic hot water circuit and the new exhaust pipes. Just under half way through with the heating circuit.

I now understand why plumbers charge more than the furnace cost to install it. So far furnace was a bit more than $2K and the plumbing bits above half of that.

Good news is I found a penetrating oil that allowed me to disassemble the well rusted old heater. Actually looks like it can be repaired as a nice back-up.

Once the heat is back I will clean up my almost completely clogged cold water pipes. Very high mineral content here.
American basements are cluttered with mad max heating stuff for water and air. European combined heating/water boiler of 40 kW are the size of carry on luggage and one man portable. One of the things I really didn't understand when I lived in D.C.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 06:33 PM   #4223
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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Originally Posted by vacuphile View Post
American basements are cluttered with mad max heating stuff for water and air. European combined heating/water boiler of 40 kW are the size of carry on luggage and one man portable. One of the things I really didn't understand when I lived in D.C.
A bit of a price difference. The usual 80 gallon tank water heater is under $700.00. Same price for a cheap hot air furnace that will allow for the same vents to do air conditioning. Real estate is cheap also.

My high efficiency furnace is the size of a suitcase, weighs 80 pounds and cost about $3,000.00 with all the additional parts. Will pay for itself in lower utility costs in 3 years.
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Old 24th January 2020, 12:49 AM   #4224
PRR is offline PRR  United States
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> My high efficiency furnace is the size of a suitcase

Furnace?? Or 'boiler' (water heater)?

I have hot-air furnace. Historically these were large. Modern ones are fairly small. The limit is that air is thin, you must move a lot to transfer heat, and the peak temperature is now limited for best efficiency. So my house needs a 10"x6" fan. Universal application needs several inches all around so I can bring in the cold air any way I want. The fan blows over the fire pipes. I have 2 flames in a space which could fit 6 flames, true; there's not a strong reason to re-dimension the furnace (and it is convenient to have no or small steps in size). While outside the furnace proper, the "biggest" thing is the air filter, which is also the lowest air-velocity part of the air path.

I won't argue the wall and room and comfort factors of air versus water. The BIG old water systems held heat; this is true but less-so for modern lightweight systems. Hot air ducts have to be designed-in, especially multi-story houses, water pipes can be snuck-in anywhere (steam is an intermediate fit).

You want "big": outdoor boiler. Somewhat popular here. A BIG fire-box takes a whole day's worth of wood. Insulated pipes run the heat into the house. Fairly expensive but can burn long lengths of cheap wood. Probably something similar in Europe's north forest.
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Old 24th January 2020, 01:17 AM   #4225
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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Around here coal was often used as the fuel source to provide domestic heat. So air, forced air and water or hydronic heaters were all called furnaces. My maternal grandparents' house was hot air without any fans that was originally coal but had been converted to natural gas.

The unit I now have provides both domestic hot water and a separate loop for heating water. Somewhat of a pain as the closed loop heating water requires a separate fill, expansion and overflow parts. My hydronic heating loop uses all potable water pipes and parts as originally the high efficiency tank type water heater did not separate the two types of water.

A boiler around here is a steam unit that vents steam at the end of the line, very old word usage. A closed loop system would be a problem if the water actually boiled!

I did have to get a refill on my acetylene torch tank! It is a 40 cubic foot tank I got from my father and last exchanged it for a refilled one more than 30 years ago! I am spoiled by that type of plumbing torch, hotter, faster and cheaper than the much more common propane/MAPP gas ones.

Also was quite handy to have the pressure gauge to test the gas line! I even have an electronic gas leak detector! Yes I have way too many tools. But my standard has always been you should be spending more on the materials than the tools. This project alone has passed that test.

For audio it means spend more on music than the sound system. (Humor if you understand I do install multi-million dollar sound systems!)

Last edited by simon7000; 24th January 2020 at 01:20 AM.
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