@Jan,
I do not believe that it is as simple as a single solution that a minority wants to examine. The science is not settled and should not be settled. The problem is far more complex than CO2 in the air.
Come to think of it, if CO2 is an effluent from our economic machine CO2 is about as clean as it gets.
Seeing exponential growth in population and exponential growth in resources consumed I am not too optimistic about stability. There is the likelihood of less clean water, less food and increased pollution. There will be mass migrations and wars fought over limited resources.
I see the “green new deal” spinning out of any semblance of stability faster than if we continue to burn carbon based fuel.
It is the solution that will kill us or at least put billions into poverty.
Thanks DT
I do not believe that it is as simple as a single solution that a minority wants to examine. The science is not settled and should not be settled. The problem is far more complex than CO2 in the air.
Come to think of it, if CO2 is an effluent from our economic machine CO2 is about as clean as it gets.
Seeing exponential growth in population and exponential growth in resources consumed I am not too optimistic about stability. There is the likelihood of less clean water, less food and increased pollution. There will be mass migrations and wars fought over limited resources.
I see the “green new deal” spinning out of any semblance of stability faster than if we continue to burn carbon based fuel.
It is the solution that will kill us or at least put billions into poverty.
Thanks DT
Yes, our exponential growth is certainly a (negative) factor. Our ever more intimate contact with other species is also a factor of the rapid evolution of SARS-like pathogens. It works on a global scale just as on a local scale: put lots of organism in close contact and evolution takes off, since every species tries to benefit from the other in terms of spread and growth.
There's most probably other factors contributing to the current instability than just Co2, but trying to catch all, or waiting for the perfect solution, is just losing time. Better to take a half-way correct decision today than never take a decision since you're never 100% certain. Maybe that is just my military training - waiting for perfect intel surely makes you lose the battle!
Jan
There's most probably other factors contributing to the current instability than just Co2, but trying to catch all, or waiting for the perfect solution, is just losing time. Better to take a half-way correct decision today than never take a decision since you're never 100% certain. Maybe that is just my military training - waiting for perfect intel surely makes you lose the battle!
Jan
/ramble on/ What disturbs me more than anything is the current politicization of those issues. To put it in focus: one party says we are stumbling into disaster with climate change, the other says it's just a temporary inconvenience and will pass. Clearly, both cannot be the case, so, just as clearly, one of the two is very wrong.
I don't want to speculate which one is right or which one is wrong, but none seems to be based on hard facts but more on political convictions, see my earlier reference to solution avoidance. If the solution is, say, more government, solution avoidance of those against more government will make sure that the problem is denied. If you are for more government, you will embrace the solution and call the problem very real.
The basic problem here is that none of these positions is based on science and hard facts, the things we humans are so good at.
That deeply worries me.
/ramble off/
Jan
I don't want to speculate which one is right or which one is wrong, but none seems to be based on hard facts but more on political convictions, see my earlier reference to solution avoidance. If the solution is, say, more government, solution avoidance of those against more government will make sure that the problem is denied. If you are for more government, you will embrace the solution and call the problem very real.
The basic problem here is that none of these positions is based on science and hard facts, the things we humans are so good at.
That deeply worries me.
/ramble off/
Jan
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What will (partly) save us is 'peak human' in another 50 years, when Africa and S-America reach our Western standard of living, no longer needing 6 children to beg for food to sustain the parents, and are as individualistic and egotistic as we are and be content with on average 0.8 child per couple.
Jan
Comparing a 100 vs a 10,000 year span in climate change is laughable.
Compare the change in climate in the last 100 years if humans are present or not on earth dumping whatever into the atmosphere.
One could say who cares burn it up as fast as I can, enjoy it while I can, I will be dead in a few years it won’t bother me today vs the BIG picture of where humanity is going the way we are operating today.
I do not have children so should I care for the rest of them?
It’s short term vs long term thinking on the species in general. Does one actually think that humans dependence on the earths resources can support the current situation as it gets worse than better? For how long?
Imo the earth would be a lot better off without humans. Kinda like an experiment that has gone bad. Hey god are you listening to me, time for the flood the earth again job = reset. maybe the next crop will be better or it will take a lot longer between floods
Compare the change in climate in the last 100 years if humans are present or not on earth dumping whatever into the atmosphere.
One could say who cares burn it up as fast as I can, enjoy it while I can, I will be dead in a few years it won’t bother me today vs the BIG picture of where humanity is going the way we are operating today.
I do not have children so should I care for the rest of them?
It’s short term vs long term thinking on the species in general. Does one actually think that humans dependence on the earths resources can support the current situation as it gets worse than better? For how long?
Imo the earth would be a lot better off without humans. Kinda like an experiment that has gone bad. Hey god are you listening to me, time for the flood the earth again job = reset. maybe the next crop will be better or it will take a lot longer between floods
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Flash flood warnings all over northeast Ohio this afternoon. We've been having rain of biblical proportions for 30 minutes to an hour, then the sun comes out!
NYTimes this weekend -- 7 years ago Lake Michigan was so low that the City of Chicago thought that the Chicago River would reverse its flow. Today it is a record high level. Well, Chicago was built on a swamp and nature is just retracing history. Between 30k and 10k years ago it was covered in the "Great Wisconsonian Glaciation"
NYTimes this weekend -- 7 years ago Lake Michigan was so low that the City of Chicago thought that the Chicago River would reverse its flow. Today it is a record high level. Well, Chicago was built on a swamp and nature is just retracing history. Between 30k and 10k years ago it was covered in the "Great Wisconsonian Glaciation"
Guess that makes me a bit of an outlier
Bill you're the exception that confirms the rule!
Jan
@Jan,
What the computer models show is peak resources used, years later followed by “peak human” then followed by a steep falloff of “human”.
It is not climate change that will get us. Climate Change will only be a footnote.
Thanks DT
In France fire fighting is a complex subject and some think not unlike the film Farenheit 451, not everyone doing their best. I have no idea as I only know what I hear from locals.
Subsidies for shepherds were reduced. Fires became more common. The sheep were keeping the scrub down. Donald Trump got into trouble saying the same. He was saying woodlands need management.
Subsidies for shepherds were reduced. Fires became more common. The sheep were keeping the scrub down. Donald Trump got into trouble saying the same. He was saying woodlands need management.
So the article should have said the River was in danger of flowing the right way! (although apparantly in winter it flows 2 ways at once)
When I lived in the burbs not far from ORD the people of Chicago were proud that, due to the clean up work the river had been upgraded from 'toxic' to 'polluted'. ISTR stories that it caught fire a couple of times!
BTW. If the Low Countries flood so will London. Then the BS stops. The Thames barrier has been a great sucess. Alas that isn't a sucess to celebrate. Me driving an electric car won't help. That train left the station a long time ago. It's the next one we need to catch.
What this proves is that doctors, dentists and other respectable jobs outrank engineers. Worse still is how few people study history. It shows. I was told by Dr Evans of Oxford University that me reading Herodotus is very rare especially before 1910. The people of our Round Table thought him very disapointing because he didn't speak of history that they knew, whilst I became his " bestie ". Herodotus talks of the engineering of the Nile long BC. Herodotus said daft things, some were not so daft and still ring true. He had a concept of a time long before what we know of Eygpt. He described a Nile journey to the source and how hard to survive doing it and why. Herodotus said how to judge if people tell the truth, it's the fluidity of what they say. It might not be what the book means to others. It's what I found so modern. I guess I am as daft as Herodotus?
What this proves is that doctors, dentists and other respectable jobs outrank engineers. Worse still is how few people study history. It shows. I was told by Dr Evans of Oxford University that me reading Herodotus is very rare especially before 1910. The people of our Round Table thought him very disapointing because he didn't speak of history that they knew, whilst I became his " bestie ". Herodotus talks of the engineering of the Nile long BC. Herodotus said daft things, some were not so daft and still ring true. He had a concept of a time long before what we know of Eygpt. He described a Nile journey to the source and how hard to survive doing it and why. Herodotus said how to judge if people tell the truth, it's the fluidity of what they say. It might not be what the book means to others. It's what I found so modern. I guess I am as daft as Herodotus?
