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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:47 PM   #97261
Waly is offline Waly
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Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
I havent generalised at all.
Riiiiiiight.
 
Old 11th November 2017, 12:19 AM   #97262
Tournesol is offline Tournesol  Belgium
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But I'd argue that if you took the two examples I gave you (assuming they're identical otherwise), you'd see extremely small differences. Extremely, as their loop gain above 100 Hz would be identical.
Dear DPH,

I agree with you, of course. Close frequency corners, extremely small differences.

Very different FC ? Very different OLG ?

We are in the world of psycho-acoustic and music. No religion, no truth revealed for me. No known absolute audibility thresholds.

Some are fighting with distortion, i think VFA is the easy way, others for speed (or phase linearity at hf), CFA seems the easy way.

Anyway, like demonstrated Mr Dadod and many others, we can achieve very close results with the two topologies.
On paper.

Will they sound the same driving our speaker and, if not, witch one will we prefer ? Only oneself can answer this question. For Himself. It is not a question of "Hipe" or "High end", just a question of personal taste.

It is enough for me to open a microphone, or look at a speaker assembly to understand that "fidelity" will be a chimera. And I don't understand how so many here can talk in the name of some absolute truth with such certainties when it is about music reproduction. Certainly not the good way to be a innovative and successful designer.

Will I be burnt to the stake of heretics ?

Your humble servant,

Tryphon Tournesol.
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Last edited by Tournesol; 11th November 2017 at 12:28 AM.
 
Old 11th November 2017, 01:06 AM   #97263
tomtt is offline tomtt
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Originally Posted by jcx View Post
so these reliably hearing CFA 'magic' could've made an easy US$10k ? Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge FAQ - seems like no one has yet

That stuff, is as in as poor taste as the

Clown/magician Randi,

Who's greatest trick thus far,

Has been to convince his Disciples,

He had a million dollars ...
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Old 11th November 2017, 01:16 AM   #97264
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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Default not the same

Randi backed out when someone stepped up - Clark publicly did 'thousands of trials'

Last edited by jcx; 11th November 2017 at 01:19 AM.
 
Old 11th November 2017, 02:16 AM   #97265
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Clark Challenge official rules here: Amplifier Challenge Rules

6. To win the $10,000.00, the listener must pass two complete sessions of 12 comparisons. Passing the test means 24 correct responses.

Doesn't sound like an easy $10k to me. You have to pay to travel to his location. Pay to ship your own equipment, if that's what you want to use. It sounds quite stressful, actually. Foobar ABX sitting at home is bad enough IMHO. It may seem like it should be easy, and for gross differences it is easy. For tiny differences, its hard.

You may have seen the crowd hush when a professional golfer makes a decisive putt. How much distraction might it take to throw somebody off? I have no idea, but they seem to mostly be given the benefit of doubt.

Back to listening, I do have a reasonably good idea that I would find a double-blind sorting test preferable to a double-blind ABX test to see what I can or can't hear. Only know that from trying it a little bit as an experiment. Figuring out what it is about human brains, or my particular one, that makes it so remains a potential subject for future research. Not that anybody wants to spend money to find out.
 
Old 11th November 2017, 02:44 AM   #97266
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Randi backed out when someone stepped up - Clark publicly did 'thousands of trials'
Randi was poorly advised and left the challenge open to pathological speaker/cable interactions.
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Old 11th November 2017, 04:34 AM   #97267
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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I can repeat this approach to audible accuracy vs 'like' again as we have new contributors.

The reference is the sound of real live acoustic instruments vs electronic playback in the home. Listening to a lot of musical instruments - live is needed to know and hear the difference. I/we dont compare electronics to other electronics which quickly turns into preferences.

I also record on the best recorder i can afford with minimal mics of flat response of small group of acoustic players... I am there to hear it live and then know if any changes in character occurs from mic/recording to be sure not to consider that as part of the live sound.

I have low distortion, controlled horizontal dispersion, high dynamic range speakers with flat on axis and flat power response and listen in near field conditions to minimise room effects and use best headphones (flat and low distortion).

Then, I am ready to listen or compare as to what amp is more accurate reproducer. Of course, I have ac line isolation transformers and individual ac filters et al. I'll skip all the details here.

Without a lot of live experience listening and careful attention to listening environment, it is almost impossible to know only by and A or B listening.

It also helps to have live acoustic playing in your room.... mine is large enough. Even a solo violin, cello or piano playing in your acoustic environment helps too. I have a nice white German Ritmueller kept in tune. This allows you to know the sound of live acoustic instruments in your particular acoustic environment and compare to reproduced sound of same instrument in same room.

You then keep doing this and updating gear as you find more 'accurate' pieces for 50 years and you too can tell which is the more accurate. Maybe it doesnt take 50 years but That is how long I have been at this and using this process.

And THEN, with designing, you can experiment with many factors and see if you notice a more or less accurate sound. Over time I/we have 'found' certain things to matter and incorporate into our designs.

Good luck to all,


THx-RNMarsh

Last edited by RNMarsh; 11th November 2017 at 05:02 AM.
 
Old 11th November 2017, 05:58 AM   #97268
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So you get the 'most accurate ' for your specific listening conditions, right?
 
Old 11th November 2017, 06:24 AM   #97269
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I can repeat this approach to audible accuracy vs 'like' again as we have new contributors.<snip>
Another day, same gas.
 
Old 11th November 2017, 08:22 AM   #97270
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Another day, same gas.
another day, same gas
 

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