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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
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Old 25th March 2013, 09:33 PM   #37291
SY is offline SY  United States
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
Snakes ain't kosher.
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Old 25th March 2013, 09:39 PM   #37292
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Just spent an hour listening to the MBL system with Tape Project copies of master tapes played back LOUD on their mid price system with AD 797 in the preamp in Montreal . In 40 years. I haven't heard better even with my Blowtorch clone and Martin Logan CLX with JL Audio fathom 113 subs even with HD Tracks down loads.
It's good every now and again to hear audio done properly, to get away from the normal "precious" sound that a lot of people listen to. If a system can't be wound up, to drive the room hard and still sound clean, be totally convincing as a musical experience, then it's not working right - simple as that ...

Frank
 
Old 25th March 2013, 09:46 PM   #37293
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A sociologist could do a Masters just with the material in this thread ...

Frank
 
Old 25th March 2013, 09:47 PM   #37294
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
If a system can't be wound up, to drive the room hard and still sound clean, be totally convincing as a musical experience, then it's not working right - simple as that ...

Frank,
That is a little bit simplistic don't you think. I have some great sounding speakers but they are only 6 1/2" diameter frame speakers. So while they will sound great at high levels, up to let's say 110db they are not a 15" cone. What happens is someone hears how clean they sound at high levels and just pushes them past the mechanical limit of the device, you just plain run out of excursion. Is there something wrong with the speakers, no, but there is a physical limit that you can expect from any speaker, you can't expect them to reach the level of a much larger sized equivalent quality speaker, you just can't get there from here kind of thing. I'm sure no expecting a VW Bettle to pull a boat just because it can get up the hill as well as a slow pickup truck, it just isn't capable to do that. Same goes for limits with speakers and room size what you should honestly expect from any speaker system.
 
Old 25th March 2013, 09:59 PM   #37295
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
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Right now, you guys are about 30 years behind me in understanding. Is it going to stay this way?
It is going to stay this way.
But what is 30 years compared to some “light years” lagging behind - say - an accomplished designer of advanced ICs?
A small slit was opened for you and us here, but you failed to notice.
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George
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Last edited by gpapag; 25th March 2013 at 10:01 PM.
 
Old 25th March 2013, 10:26 PM   #37296
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That is a little bit simplistic don't you think. I have some great sounding speakers but they are only 6 1/2" diameter frame speakers. So while they will sound great at high levels, up to let's say 110db they are not a 15" cone. What happens is someone hears how clean they sound at high levels and just pushes them past the mechanical limit of the device, you just plain run out of excursion. Is there something wrong with the speakers, no, but there is a physical limit that you can expect from any speaker, you can't expect them to reach the level of a much larger sized equivalent quality speaker, you just can't get there from here kind of thing.
Of course there are physical limits in the very low bass area, Xmax must be respected, but IME this would be an extreme of sound source, and speaker tuning and equalisation to make happen. My belief is that a good bass driver in situ is one that you never perceive as moving, no matter what the loudness level is.

I have no special fondness for low bass, for me the action is everywhere else, so provided I'm not running remastered "Raw Power" at full tilt the speakers should do fine. Basically, my ears give up before anything else does, I wind back because my head says that the hearing mechanism needs recovery time.

Frank
 
Old 25th March 2013, 10:33 PM   #37297
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Scott would know more but a mask set can be $1,000,000 if that is what is needed. Can you be more specific about the RFI problem and how to excite it? I know those are difficult issues to fix and are sometimes process related or so I have been told.
Most linear op-amp type circuits are closer to $50-100K
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Old 25th March 2013, 10:39 PM   #37298
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If a system can't be wound up, to drive the room hard and still sound clean, be totally convincing as a musical experience, then it's not working right - simple as that ...

Frank
I realize how far away many of you are from my tastes, I never wind it up and generally can't stand listening loud. I almost always prefer bass shy speakers too.
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Old 25th March 2013, 10:54 PM   #37299
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If you have a system that is limited in volume range, as mine is, then you realise that the subjective impression of sound intensity is, well, subjective. Part of that is that recordings are mastered at greatly varying average levels, I have recordings, a Kiri Te Kanawa CD is of special note, that maximum volume is just barely loud enough even for very conventional listening - the engineers adjusted everything to account for the single crescendo peak in one track, somewhere ...

So, really it's all about comfortably handling dynamic range ... I find that if the system can reproduce reasonably compressed rock n' roll cleanly at a high volume setting, then a solo piano at that same setting will be very natural, very convincing, and similarly for chamber works, they will give you the "in the room" goosebumps ...

Frank
 
Old 25th March 2013, 11:22 PM   #37300
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
Frank,
When you say you are not into low bass that is not a very easy thing to quantify. My 6 1/2" speaker will go solid down to 36hz@-3db and that is low enough for any music I listen to but some here want to get down to 20hz or even in extreme cases lower than that for home theater. So many consider that if they get a nice bump around 60hz they are satisfied, so bass is very subjective in where we are happy with it/ Most bass horns in a room are lucky to hit the 60hz range with any real output compared to the fundamental output at horn cutoff, so we are in a very gray area when we speak of bass fundamentals.
 

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