Doesn't matter how sharp an engineer he is. The fact remains that he came up with the 118dB figure by taking the just-detectable threshold of being able to hear noise under quiet conditions, and subtracted that from the 122dB figure he derived for unamplified music.
As Scott and me have been pointing out, this figure bears absolutely no relationship to actually LISTENING TO REPRODUCED MUSIC.
You're simply never going to hear any noise at 4dB SPL WHILE YOU'RE LISTENING TO MUSIC with 122dB peaks.
If you and Richard can't fathom that, then you should both just stay away from audio because all you're doing is further misleading people with nonsense.
se
There are WAY too many papers to site and put down here. It isnt my goal in life to prove anything here. Rather, just to state what my conclusions are. I understand very well se's comments. i dont care about that issue or view. Not that it is not interesting or have a place in the scheme of things. But as a master file, I would want the best possible recording of a possible once-in-a-life time performance. And, then have that master file downloaded for my play back without compression et al. I find the Engineering Standards a good place to aim our own efforts.
THx-RNMarsh
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You didn't say "papers," Richard, you said STANDARDS. Papers and preprints are NOT STANDARDS. If you don't understand the difference, then you should just shut up on the matter.
Not only can you not cite the STANDARDS that you claimed them to be, you can't even present a rational argument in your own words to even support your position. Like John, you just throw a bunch of words in the air to try and impress people who don't know any better and will just swallow them unquestioningly, and then get all mealy-mouthed when those words are challenged.
se
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Cute. Real nice. Guess I am just as dumb as dirt. No idea what all these differences mean. 
So confusing to me..... Standards and papers on dynamic range and the like. Now I am going to bed and get a nice sleep and when i wake up in the morning, I'll just go out and hang myself.
THx-RNMarsh
So confusing to me..... Standards and papers on dynamic range and the like. Now I am going to bed and get a nice sleep and when i wake up in the morning, I'll just go out and hang myself.
THx-RNMarsh
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Here are the AES' published STANDARDS. Which of these STANDARDS should I download in order to read the AES STANDARD on dynamic range that you previously claimed and said I should read?
Standards In Print
se
Standards In Print
se
Clearly you don't. Neither does dirt. So logically, that does indeed make you just as dumb as dirt when it comes to standards vs papers and preprints.
se
I'll be as clear as I can.... I dont care about codecs and compression and masking nor your point, se. Address it to others, who might care.
For others: Here are some things to consider for your performance goals:
View attachment 2_ Key Digital Principles _ International Association of Sound and Audiovisual Archives.pdf
THx-RNMarsh
For others: Here are some things to consider for your performance goals:
View attachment 2_ Key Digital Principles _ International Association of Sound and Audiovisual Archives.pdf
THx-RNMarsh
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Richard,
Yes the crate engine would be the most ideal or an engine out of a wrecked new Corvette would be nice. There really is no substitute for modern technology. A modern supercharger is a real wonder compared to the old style or a nice set of turbos.
122 db in a normal home environment seem like it sure should cover anything a normal human could seriously handle for any amount of time. Under what conditions is it quite enough to hear a 4 db sound, even in a very quite house what is a typical background noise level?
Yes the crate engine would be the most ideal or an engine out of a wrecked new Corvette would be nice. There really is no substitute for modern technology. A modern supercharger is a real wonder compared to the old style or a nice set of turbos.
122 db in a normal home environment seem like it sure should cover anything a normal human could seriously handle for any amount of time. Under what conditions is it quite enough to hear a 4 db sound, even in a very quite house what is a typical background noise level?
Sure.
I don't think anybody is suggesting that a baton/drum stick dropped on stage can be heard whilst the orchestra/PA is running at full tilt.
Provided the loud passages are clean and have ceased, the ears quickly drop out of self protection mode and revert to full sensitivity.
Very soon after the orchestra/band reverts to quiet passages, then low level sounds become perfectly audible.
Dan.
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I would imagine that at my home when there is no wind is about as low noise as anyone is likely to have. I like to play loud --- my dynamic range is >100dB on bass peaks. But not as loud as a full symph orch at full blast and up close.
Point -- The recorders (preamps, ADC etc) have to handle the full dynamic range of sounds without audible noise or distortion...... And, my playback dynamic range isnt exceptional. So, a few more dB for a Standard seems realistic to me. Especially, for archival, studio and many other places.
THx-RNMarsh
Point -- The recorders (preamps, ADC etc) have to handle the full dynamic range of sounds without audible noise or distortion...... And, my playback dynamic range isnt exceptional. So, a few more dB for a Standard seems realistic to me. Especially, for archival, studio and many other places.
THx-RNMarsh
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The typical response from those who make claims and then find themselves in the embarrassing position of not being able to support them. "Go away, I don't care." That's the classic behavior of a charlatan.
Yes, if their goals are the archiving and preservation of old analog audio and video.
It's like taking ultra high resolution photos of the Mona Lisa. They will capture details that would be useful for researchers and historians, but you'll never see those details while looking at the painting in the Louvre.
se
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Counterpoint—Noise at 4dB SPL will never be even close to audible while listening to music with peaks of 100+dB. Hence, the 118dB dynamic range is, as Scott so succinctly put it, "silly."
se
No, they don't. At least I don't think of a time frame of minutes to be "quickly."
se
I did say provided the sounds are clean, dead clean.
After sustained listening to grunge/indi for example this does not apply.
Dan.
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