Bonsai, I don't think anyone is lying here. Much of What takes away from the music experience are sounds we have an aversion to. The LP distortion types are less offensive to most people (my guess). I can become emersed in the music of some old classical recordings, like I'm actually there at the event. People can talk numbers all they want ... But what counts is what brings you closer to the music.
High res digital does that for me in some cases with a very good recording.
I posted the wrong link in my mention of pono music. Here is the one I meant to post. I look forward to hearing the pono player with well recorded high res music.
Will the $400 Pono Music Player sound like a $27,500 stereo preamplifier? - CNET
John
High res digital does that for me in some cases with a very good recording.
I posted the wrong link in my mention of pono music. Here is the one I meant to post. I look forward to hearing the pono player with well recorded high res music.
Will the $400 Pono Music Player sound like a $27,500 stereo preamplifier? - CNET
John
Anyone who thinks cheap ( your words ) digital sounds better than analog has bad analog and i have all formats , so i dont really care which sounds better , i really dont care what other's prefer . What i do hate are those clueless to Sota digital or analog sound putting a clamp on everything not in their world .
So,
If digital has more of everything why spend most of your time listening to inferior sounding Analog , who does that , i wouldnt waste my time listening to bad analog with all of it's inconvenience. Its the same for me with tapes i wont waste time playing it unless i have good material , its too inconvenient to set up for bad sounding tapes.
Well unless your analog do sounds better to you than your digital and you are playing it safe by saying its inferior to digital, same as Bonsai did ...
Analog requires man months to make right, do it once and never look back again for at least 2 months
funny seeing the great one claim the record sounds different everytime you play it , love to see his ABX , mission critical switch box results on that...
Agree on hires digital getting closer , unfortunately there's a softening of the sound with hi res Digital, it's a bit softer in dynamics than a good analog pressing ...
Absolutely not. Total novices can hear the difference.
I've found that, and Fremer has written the same.
I never made any claims about the "absolute" quality of my analog playback system, but I've been playing records on a variety of systems for over 40 years (that seems to be the magic number around here) and have worked in some pretty good hifi shops when I was young, where I was exposed to some very good systems (better than I could afford to own back then). Like I keep saying, but you can't seem to hear, I am pretty happy with my current vinyl system, even though I don't consider it "finished" yet. You really are missing the point, because YES even inexpensive digital gear beats vinyl by virtually all standard metrics, and anyone who thinks otherwise isn't listening to music or paying attention.
So what's with all the histrionics then? Oh, wait:
Do you have an example of that? Clamp? I have clearly said, over and over again, that I listen to both analog and digital, and I enjoy both. So why are your panties in a twist?
Because I want to, what's it to you? I think I have already told you, but you refuse to listen. For example, I have a lovely pressing, on the Liberty label, of Buddy Rich live at the Tropicana, recorded in 1970 (I think I got my copy in '71). It is an extraordinary recording of an extraordinary performance by an extraordinary band. Every note on that disc is an old friend, and so is every tick, pop, and scratch. When I was a kid I played that record on a Fleetwood console, put a pair of cheap mics in front of the speakers, and recorded the album onto 7.5ips reel-to-reel (Sears Silvertone finest) so I could plug in my cheap headphones, sit down behind my drum set, and play along with Buddy. I did that every day after school for years when I was a teenager. (My idiot older brother, on the other hand, taught himself to play 5-string banjo by playing back Earl Scruggs albums on the same R2R at 1/2 speed to figure out the fingering.) I have no doubt that I could get a CD or RedBook download of that recording that would be better in many ways (not least because of the absence of 40 years of wear and tear), but I LOVE that record and I like playing it, no matter it's faults. I really don't care what you would or would not waste your time with, why is it so important to you how I spend my time and energy?
Nice. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but it seems kind of nasty, and you managed to drag in another target of your bile.
Good lord, what do you want people to say? I already told you I play vinyl and I like it. Do I also have to sign an affidavit avowing that I agree with everything A.Wayne says, and not only do I like vinyl but IT IS UNQUESTIONABLY TECHNICALLY SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY TO ALL DIGITAL SOUND REPRODUCTION??
Sorry bro, that's not happening. I know what I like, but I'm not an idiot. I have heard plenty of bad CD's, but I wasn't stupid enough to blame the medium for the bad recordings. I've heard plenty of good and bad LP's, and while most of the bad ones had nothing to do with the format, a number of them were bad just because of crappy pressings. If you were around in the late '70s you should know how many terrible records were literally unplayable because they were so badly warped. I haven't seen a warped CD yet. OTOH, I have had the pleasant experience of playing a CD of an old familiar album, and hearing things I never knew were there before. More recently I have had the experience of playing some old familiar LP's and hearing things I never heard before, but in some cases it was pre-echo that I could have lived without.
There's so much Irony in your post its hilarious , so let me try again.
I did not say you did not enjoy your music , you said you have cheap digital and its superior to your analog . My response to that is .....
IF YOUR ANALOG IS INFERIOR SOUNDING TO CHEAP DIGITAL , you have a bad analog setup.
I didnt tell you not to enjoy it , i didnt tell you to stop playing it and i surely did not tell you to change your desired position on both. I'm only suggesting you have a bad analog setup, if it sounds inferior to cheap digital, as you STATED IS SUPERIOR TO YOUR ANALOG TT ...
So relax , its all good ...
I did not say you did not enjoy your music , you said you have cheap digital and its superior to your analog . My response to that is .....
IF YOUR ANALOG IS INFERIOR SOUNDING TO CHEAP DIGITAL , you have a bad analog setup.
I didnt tell you not to enjoy it , i didnt tell you to stop playing it and i surely did not tell you to change your desired position on both. I'm only suggesting you have a bad analog setup, if it sounds inferior to cheap digital, as you STATED IS SUPERIOR TO YOUR ANALOG TT ...
So relax , its all good ...
Last edited:
Nezbleu ,
My apologies if i came across wrong on this , it was not my intent to offend you , when on the dumbphone , i hate posting with it and short type, my suggestion is to focus on your TT IF YOU USE IT THAT MUCH , your setup is not optimized if not as good as cheap digital..
Regards ..
My apologies if i came across wrong on this , it was not my intent to offend you , when on the dumbphone , i hate posting with it and short type, my suggestion is to focus on your TT IF YOU USE IT THAT MUCH , your setup is not optimized if not as good as cheap digital..
Regards ..
Last edited:
Thanks. I'm relaxed, and I'm also right. When you have a vinyl playback system with >30dB channel separation at all frequencies, ruler-flat frequency response in the audio band, >80dB S/N ratio, essentially zero pitch variation, and lower distortion than RedBook, then we can talk. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy LP's, unless you are so obsessive-compulsive that you can only enjoy music played on a system that you think is The Absolute Best. I have enjoyed vinyl (even 45's!), tape (R2R and cassette), CD's, FLAC's, ogg/vorbis, mp3's, whatever, it's the content that matters. Vinyl is fun, at least in part because it is a technical challenge -- the medium is so inherently flawed that it is tough to get the best out of it. Digital is TECHNICALLY SUPERIOR in every way, and even an inexpensive CD player will outperform any vinyl system in the terms I stated above (and many others). So I can only assume that either (1)you possess a SOTA vinyl playback system that is so advanced it literally outperforms any LP ever recorded by any cutter-head, or (2)you don't know what "irony" means.
cross-post: a.wayne, I accept your apology, and I'm sure I came across a little strong as well. I'm not at all sure that we are on the same page, but it really doesn't matter. There are so many more important things in this world than hifi, it would be a shame to waste energy on an argument like this.
When it becomes subjective per the above then how can you possibly know you are right? You may like it more, perfectly fine, but liking does not equal correct. Its perfectly valid to select for the more likable but its really dangerous to substitute likable for "correct" or "accurate". If I don't agree with you does that make my judgments invalid? I do find very good digital gives me a better experience of the original that analog (even tape) doesn't. I am aware of the flaws in the analog.
Since playing a recording at best is an illusion its OK to prefer an illusion that has "enhancements" in it as long as you are honest about it. Listening to 2 channel stereo and hearing a spread of instruments is a completely learned experience operating at levels way above your ears.
Adding enhancements, whether its reverb, noise, distortion eq, etc. can really pull some wonders from a recording. Spaced omnis are not magic devices that get everything that was performed in front of them and none of the other noises in the room. Excessive editing can strip some of the subtle rhythm modulations of the original performance out killing a sense of naturalness. Adding some flutter may help?
My point is that we are all on very thin ice making pronouncements of analog or digital being better. The only valid claim anyone can make is that they prefer a specific recording under specific conditions over analog or digital.
I may get back into making phono preamps because that's where the money is, not for any philosophical value to it.
Demian
From that strange mix (10 minutes ago, Monday morning)
George
I am 100% Left brain.
http://en.sommer-sommer.com/braintest/
So, this analog vs. digital has gone the way of tubes vs. silicon. It seems audio as a general hobby to most and profession to some cannot exist without such discussions, which all too often start becomening personal and nasty.
I honestly don't understand why is it so important that each camp badly needs public recognition of it claims.
Why does that matter at all? If one is happy with analog, fine, that's the point, you are supposed to feel happy. If so with digital, just as fine.
How do you ever hope to reach any kind of general agreement when both sides have to deal with separate and individual setups? Somebody gets the analog setup better than others, obviously he will be happy with it and if he hasnot got the digital setup right to the same extent, his analog will naturally sound better to him, and vice versa.
And why does it matter at all? If the music you are listening to has you tapping your feet and following the drum beat, that's all that really matters. You have it, enjoy it.
I honestly don't understand why is it so important that each camp badly needs public recognition of it claims.
Why does that matter at all? If one is happy with analog, fine, that's the point, you are supposed to feel happy. If so with digital, just as fine.
How do you ever hope to reach any kind of general agreement when both sides have to deal with separate and individual setups? Somebody gets the analog setup better than others, obviously he will be happy with it and if he hasnot got the digital setup right to the same extent, his analog will naturally sound better to him, and vice versa.
And why does it matter at all? If the music you are listening to has you tapping your feet and following the drum beat, that's all that really matters. You have it, enjoy it.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.