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Dan.
What a great idea....maybe the objectiveista could (try to) subjectively describe sounds and subjective effects of differing distortion mechanisms....
Dan.
Much Better Than Grange....
Dan.
The local Swan Valley and south west Margaret Rivers wines available here are pleasantly cheap and readily available...the old school chewy reds are fun.
Dan.
My experience is that it is usually the 'subjectivists' who get offended when the errors or emptiness of their remarks are pointed out. All we ask for ismikelm said:
- evidence that there is an effect, rather than excuses for why the effect seems to disappear under test conditions
- plausible explanation, rather than pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo which merely exposes the ignorance of the writer/speaker
We are offered neither. When we press for them the usual response is some form of insult.
Early 90's. Chablis cellar door was very disappointing, perhaps just too fatigued with the tourist game? - the township itself was very pleasant. The food in France made up for the wine - and I was told to always go for the house wine for value for money if I didn't know otherwise - usually a relationship between the restaurant and local winery made it a good choice ...
Yep, we do big ones - plenty of time required for everything to unwind properly. My fondest memory is a Huntington Estate Cabernet, from Mudgee - never bettered ...
Went to Harrods wine room on the same trip, and the salesman was condescending about the Aussie items they had. Which made perfect sense, because it was all the normal plonk, which are always the weekly specials at every liquor outlet you drive into down here - I was staggered at the prices the Londoners were asking for the stuff.
The export trade is adeptly played by some big commercial operations now, not taken very seriously locally. These days you can buy very reasonable, barbeque wine for under $3, $12 should guarantee you a bottle with plenty of real character and interest. And for $20 and some smart knowledge you can pick up a 95 pointer that will knock your socks off ...
I'm finding it a time for some remarkable values. But the iconic and especially the very scarce are absurdly priced, and although some are undoubtedly great the people who taste them are almost certainly less than objective. If you've paid 18k for a bottle, even if that amount is not a hardship, you're bound to praise it to the sky (I recently read cellartracker tasting notes for the 1978 Romanee Conti, of which a friend has one bottle --- I pray that it is not corked).
John Duval, who used to make Grange, does have his own wines now and they are a pretty decent value IMO. But there are some stunning things coming out of France from fairly obscure places. And I had an excellent South African Chardonnay, Hamilton Russell, recently, that I decided has aging potential, so I tucked some of it away. The proprietor of the storage space (SY is acquainted with him), who says he rarely drinks Chard and keeps some around at home "mostly for medicinal purposes" got a bottle at a local store, a different vintage, which he needed to take to a dinner party, and was surprised how good it was.
A lot going on. But Grand Cru Chablis will likely always be difficult to afford.
Want to know a secret ...? Highly likely that there is, or was at some stage, an Australian winemaker lurking in the back sheds of the operations of these makers.
One of our better export efforts ...
I find this strange, at that time top Grand Cru Chabis from virtually any producer was < $50 retail here the worst markup state around. OTOH I had the same experience in Bordeaux, but that was just a couple of years ago. There is a subjective element so maybe just leave it to personal taste, I find the post Parker (the American critic who made it OK to make wines as unbalanced as possible) Shiraz undrinkable even at the >$100 level. Yes we do get plenty of Henschke and D'Arenberg here not just Greg Norman. The only sensible discussion is person to person over the same item, I have tasted together with folks and at times it was I love this but you hate it. Goes both ways.
Back to not talking about the BT.
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Okay, the exchange rate at the time was about $0.65, so the numbers make sense - it means you were getting the goods at cellar door prices - not bad at all ...
I just read up about 'Parkerization' - here we went in the other direction, as a reaction to how easy it is for us to make heavy ones ... I was getting sick of gutless, zero bodied reds which were everywhere a few years ago at the average price level, that lacked the elegance to restore balance.
I just read up about 'Parkerization' - here we went in the other direction, as a reaction to how easy it is for us to make heavy ones ... I was getting sick of gutless, zero bodied reds which were everywhere a few years ago at the average price level, that lacked the elegance to restore balance.
Many here are happy discussing subjective differences in wine. I tend to agree with them, based on my own subjective experience with tasting wine differences.
How do we know we are not fooling ourselves? Where is the measurement of the wine that shows the differences in taste? Before talking about any one wine being better than another, should we not subject it to a double blind test from a noted university?
I just say this to point out the similar problem with the debates about audio quality.
How do we know we are not fooling ourselves? Where is the measurement of the wine that shows the differences in taste? Before talking about any one wine being better than another, should we not subject it to a double blind test from a noted university?
I just say this to point out the similar problem with the debates about audio quality.
Since that's been demonstrated incorrect about a millionty times, I cannot ascribe this to honest forgetfulness.
I once saw Hardy's reds and whites in a Denmark supermarket for less than my local Oz bottlo.
Dan.
Don't be silly, John. Wine does not correspond to audio systems; it corresponds to musical performances. The true analogue would be bottles, stoppers and glasses - which ones best preserve the flavour of the wine without adding or subtracting anything? Doubtless there will be someone who prefers sugar-impregnated stoppers!!john curl said:
Tsk ..... Tsk ......
Because he doesn't want to talk to you ?
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No, because he keeps saying the same debunked things over and over and over and over.
se
I don't think that you can ever remove the subjective aspects of not only of the reproduction chain but also as far as that goes it gets back to the production stage. While we may know an excellent piano player there can be a definite difference in the actual piano that makes one performance subjectively better than another. One baby grand does not sound the same as another but how do we objectively rate that? Those will be subjective determinations, I see no way other than that to objectify why we chose one instrument over another, it is a personal choice. I will always remember helping a friend pick out a Martin D28 guitar out of many dozens of choices. How did we do that , purely subjective listening, how would you quantify the differences between what are supposed to be identical instruments? There was just a tonality to the one we chose that has nothing to do with distortion or any other measure I can think of. I think this is where subjective choice also enters our audio systems, measurements alone do not tell the whole story, it is more complex than that.
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