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Old 11th September 2018, 09:55 PM   #1
brownslane is offline brownslane  Canada
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I just found this idiot posting on CAM. He (obviously) has no idea what he is talking about. I called him on it. However, we all should be aware of the types of stupid comments being made "out there" Libelous comments need always be responded to.

Amp Camp Amp ACA kit way overpriced. - General Audio Discussion • Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum

I am the guy who called him on his comments. What a knob!!
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:27 AM   #2
planet10 is online now planet10  Canada
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Thanx for pointing that out, i have posted a scolding.

dave
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:34 AM   #3
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownslane View Post
What a knob!!
I thought that was an anatomical term, they usually come in pairs.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:01 AM   #4
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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No, the knob goes between the pair.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:30 AM   #5
Jason is offline Jason  Australia
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Haha, yeah that guy Clearly off his meds

Pretty sure it's the same guy who used to write from an anonymous @protonmail encrypted email account ranting on about how unless we were buying parts from Mouser and Digikey they would all be fake (we do in fact buy our parts from Mouser and Digikey) and "I know what I'm talking about I'm in the biz you guys are selling fake parts" yada yada yada. I actually invested the time trying to educate him but he just replied with expletives so I redirected all future emails to /dev/null.

I guess he worked out his emails weren't going anywhere, and this time around he's writing from a new burner @gmail.com account and spouting similar nonsense, safe in his anonymity. In one sentence he's complaining about the chassis price, then in the next saying it couldn't be made in Italy because it's too expensive to make things there. Talk about brain dead.

Here's some highlights from his last email to our poor customer service department. I feel very sorry Elena has to read stuff like this:

"**** you Jason! You piece of ****! ... made in Italy you mother fuckin dick! ... I’m in the business, I know where all this **** is made, you FUCKIN THIEF! ... You can’t make a living at 20%, FUCKFACE! Just wait, I am going on the forums and let everyone know about this scam!!!!!"

I'm pretty sure that will get through our profanity filter because "FUKIN" is a city in China.

Dear sir... the reason quality things cost more than crappy things is that quality things cost more to make. Yes, our chassis are made in Italy, and yes it's not cheap to make things in Italy and yes that's why the chassis are not cheap. Hifi2000 pay their staff well, and they take the time to make the product with care. Our after sales service is second to none. If there are any problems with your chassis you can feel comfortable knowing we'll ship you replacement parts half way across the world, for free. Quality product, quality service, competitive price, saves you hours of breaking taps and ruining your heatsinks. "No brainer" decision for most people who value their time and can see the value for money.

Sadly, people like this will never pay good money for quality hardware, and therefore will never learn the difference in finishing quality between a $20 Chinese chassis churned out by a guy on the side of the road and a $150 Italian Hifi2000 chassis made by a sequence of multi generational artisans specializing in each finishing stage (painting, anodizing, working raw materials, brushing, tapping, etc). When I was in Italy we compared the level of finish on these Chinese chassis (brushing, edging, etc) with each in hand, and it was chalk and cheese.

The beauty of the internet is that you can of course spend your money wherever you want. Nelson's original ACA article details all the parts and with some thrifty surplus shopping you can buy the parts to make an ACA channel for $20 and wire it up point to point. If you want a nice chassis and all the accoutrements, we have a great value product for you that will save you time and money. If you want to make the ACA in a tin-can, go for it. The chassis (and the power supply) are optional exactly because we want as many people as possible to make this great amp. The last thing I've been concerned with has been making money. We pay our assembly partners very well, and the store's gross margins on the last round of ACAs was just over 20%. After a barrage of credit card fees, FX conversion, warehouse handling fees, hours spent doing order changes, and $2k/month of overheads on top, the store has made a very slim profit.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:44 AM   #6
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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@jason -- DIYr's can be a pretty skeevy lot. A couple of charge-backs and you have no profit margin at all for the entire year.

Same in our industrial biz -- if you get one customer who files for bankruptcy you're lucky to get 10 cents on the dollar. We have folks who had good credit, but sold to Toys R Us in the US, and through no fault of their own are going out of biz. You have to build the loss ratio into your gross margin assumption.
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Old 12th September 2018, 03:43 AM   #7
brownslane is offline brownslane  Canada
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I called him on his comments and......crickets.......not a response at all.
A moderator is watching him as well.

I expect he will move on.....at least from that thread!!

Idiots are like eliminatory orifices....everybody has one. Sorry to hear you have to deal with his abuse. Let me aopolgize on behalf of all other Canadians....he is our one jerk.....
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Old 12th September 2018, 04:18 AM   #8
invaderzim is offline invaderzim  United States
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Probably the same person that did a hit and run assault on the kit on audiokarma. He threw out a bunch of accusations about it being fake parts like above.

There are some ridiculously angry and idiotic people in the world. What leads people to get so emotional about little things that have nothing to do with them? He didn't buy the kit and end up unhappy with it; he's just unhappy.

As someone who's work crosses into customer service I will say when you contact a company for help please keep the fact that the customer service person you are contacting spends their day dealing with more of this type then they should and be patient and understanding with them.
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Old 12th September 2018, 06:32 AM   #9
tomchr is offline tomchr  Canada
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Last I checked, one of the selling points on the DIY Store ACA website was that you can't buy the parts for the cost of the kit. To me, that means the kit is priced way too low. After all, Jason et al. who put together the kit are then the ones dealing with parts that go in/out of stock, floating the cash to buy inventory, and putting itty-bitty parts into itty-bitty bags. In my view, that's an added service which should cost money. It certainly is a service that adds value! But that's me...

The same can be said for the chassis. I had a ModuShop chassis done for my Modulus-686. When ordering two of these, the landed cost for each chassis with holes for connectors and switches and heat sinks with threaded holes for mounting screws was nearly $500 per enclosure. Over $100 of that was shipping and customs fees. That's for a fairly basic chassis. Then again, I am modifying every panel in the chassis other than the top panel. That's a service that adds value and should (and does) cost money. Try getting your local machine shop to make those modifications for you and you'll see what I mean!

Although $500-ish for a chassis is a good chunk of change, I found the end product to be well worth the price. All the holes are exactly where I wanted them and the correct size. Some of the holes (slots) I could not have done myself. The digital print on the rear panel turned out great.

Also note the superb packing job by ModuShop. Everything is packed tightly and protected such that nothing gets dinged up or scratched in transit.

I honestly have no idea how the ACA chassis can be sold for only $150 including all the modifications (holes, threads, etc.) that it comes with. Kudos Jason. Keep it up!

I've used one of the eBay chassis before (the 'BZ4309'). It may be slightly less expensive than the corresponding ModuShop product - but not by much. The eBay chassis I ordered arrived covered in cutting fluid and some of the bits hadn't been de-burred. It was a pain to assemble.

I also once priced out the aluminum needed to make a chassis from Online Metals in Seattle (and heat sinks from HeatSink USA). Buying the raw materials would set me back about 2/3 of the cost of the ModuShop chassis. By the time you add the work needed to convert raw aluminum into a chassis and get the whole mess anodized, you've spent way more than a finished chassis costs.

There's always someone who want something for nothing. That's highly unfortunate.

Tom
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BoxContents-1.jpg (427.4 KB, 287 views)
File Type: jpg BoxContents-2.jpg (345.5 KB, 288 views)
File Type: jpg Chassis.jpg (350.4 KB, 291 views)
File Type: jpg Finished-2.jpg (262.3 KB, 293 views)
File Type: jpg FinishedRear.jpg (359.3 KB, 293 views)
File Type: jpg PowerOn.jpg (269.3 KB, 94 views)
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Old 13th September 2018, 02:06 AM   #10
Jason is offline Jason  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomchr View Post
I honestly have no idea how the ACA chassis can be sold for only $150 including all the modifications (holes, threads, etc.) that it comes with. Kudos Jason. Keep it up!
Exactly, they're a bargain for what you get.

Nice to see a post from Hifi2000 in the CAM thread. Looks like the OP simply could not comprehend that these are really made in Italy. Yes, these chassis are extruded, brushed, anodized, painted, and packaged with love in the Hifi2000 workshop in Italy, with peripheral support for specialized jobs (like painting and anodizing) from small specalized factories operated by dad/mom/son/daughter/grandma/grandpa who have passed down the skills over the years, right around the corner from Ducati and Lamborghini.

Hifi2000 extends a warm welcome to anyone to come to the factory in Bologna and see where your chassis are made. They even have a B&B you can stay at nearby if you want to visit.

The difference between a Hifi2000 chassis and those of lower quality is something you can see, feel and smell. At the end of the day, when you factor in the materials, finishing quality, customizations, tapping, ease of assembly, packaging, FedEx shipping, and after sales service, there isn't anything on the market that competes with them.

Then there's knowing you're supporting a company that supports DIYers, spending your money with the right people and keeping your hobby alive. Want to see more kits and projects and DIY infrastructure created? What goes around comes around.

You get what you pay for and anything cheaper will be of inferior quality (materials (and materials safety), finishing, washing), packaging, shipping and after sales service. Most people feel the ACA chassis (and ACA in general) is a bargain.

Last edited by Jason; 13th September 2018 at 02:19 AM.
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