Another thread (The sexiest woofer ever) on this forum inspired me to create this thread. To me that thread shows that there are alot of people out there who are familliar with alot of different drivers. I doubt any one of us knows every speaker out there though some may come close, so I believe collectively we can determine which driver avaiable currently is the best bang for your buck driver in the market.
The rules:
Bang for your buck is a ratio of dollars spent to the maximum output in decibels. Sound quality isnt considered in this particular definition, although it does play a factor in the worth of the speaker in question.
We're only talking about subwoofers here so I think it just to use the maximum output in a sealed box at 20hz. Unfortunately some people dont desire bass that low as I do, so I will have to say bang for your buck will be measured at 40hz in a sealed box of any size that is reasonable.
The rules:
Bang for your buck is a ratio of dollars spent to the maximum output in decibels. Sound quality isnt considered in this particular definition, although it does play a factor in the worth of the speaker in question.
We're only talking about subwoofers here so I think it just to use the maximum output in a sealed box at 20hz. Unfortunately some people dont desire bass that low as I do, so I will have to say bang for your buck will be measured at 40hz in a sealed box of any size that is reasonable.
I'll definitely throw my JBL 1500GTI in the hat for this one. Purchased new at a department store for $175 . Originally priced over $1k, but they never sold it. When I ran across it, it had been marked down 4 or 5 times. 92db at 2.83V, 20mm Xmax, 5000W peak power handling. It should be able to do 120-125db anechoic sealed at 40-50hz. As long as the marked down price is acceptable, it would be hard to beat. In fact enter it into your sexiest category too. To me your other example looked cheaply made in comparison.
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=W15GTI&ser=GTI&cat=SUB
If it gets thrown out, then I'm sure I can come up with an array of cheapie drivers in the same total price range that will achieve a similar or higher result in a sealed cab. 8 of these for example
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-063
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=W15GTI&ser=GTI&cat=SUB
If it gets thrown out, then I'm sure I can come up with an array of cheapie drivers in the same total price range that will achieve a similar or higher result in a sealed cab. 8 of these for example
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-063
Ok, what simulation are you referring to? I'll throw out some suggestions. I tried to stay with subs that perform well and not just cheap and loud subs.
Acoustic Elegance/Stryke AV15 $205?
http://www.aespeakers.com/products_av15.php
Adire Shiva MSRP $199, I think the older ones were cheaper though
http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/ShivaSeries.htm
Dayton DVC $127.50
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-190&DID=7
Elemental Designs 16Kv2 $135 shipped
http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=1&pid=5&tab=Specs&cur=USD
Acoustic Elegance/Stryke AV15 $205?
http://www.aespeakers.com/products_av15.php
Adire Shiva MSRP $199, I think the older ones were cheaper though
http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/ShivaSeries.htm
Dayton DVC $127.50
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-190&DID=7
Elemental Designs 16Kv2 $135 shipped
http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=1&pid=5&tab=Specs&cur=USD
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Joined 2003
Maximum bang for your buck driver is one that is on sale...or used but not abused. For example the Ascendant Audio drivers that are on sale right now..great deal.
At the local liquidation outlet there is some big Visonik drivers there, but I don't know anything about the company to say whether they are any good or not. They look like they might be all show no go drivers, but you never know.LINK
At the local liquidation outlet there is some big Visonik drivers there, but I don't know anything about the company to say whether they are any good or not. They look like they might be all show no go drivers, but you never know.LINK
Any kind of simulation that calculates the maximum continuous output I suppose. WinISD Bassbox Leap or whatever other speaker design program that does it...
I suppose I could do the simulations myself if supplied with the parameters(which I can probably find if I get a link)
I think we ought to make a new rule... blowout deals on drivers shouldnt really count. If a driver is "on sale" for some discount often then that is more reasonable and can be considered.
Joe,
The rule maker said "sealed". If horns were allowed, I'd enter my 16 driver corner horn array design using NSB's. HornResp tells me that $8 of drivers will do 107db at 1 watt at 40hz. Unfortunately 40hz is the bottom limit before response drops like a rock and the drivers are close to their Xmax at one watt, so you couldn't call it a sub anyway.
The rule maker said "sealed". If horns were allowed, I'd enter my 16 driver corner horn array design using NSB's. HornResp tells me that $8 of drivers will do 107db at 1 watt at 40hz. Unfortunately 40hz is the bottom limit before response drops like a rock and the drivers are close to their Xmax at one watt, so you couldn't call it a sub anyway.
I'm going to ignore any rules, since that is what I do best
. My lengthy search for maxiumum bang (boom?) for my (bass) dollar, ended here with these:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009V3TS/sz-ce-20/ref=nosim/102-8884637-5408938
15" driver with a claimed (by Pyle - not me!) 24mm Xmax (p-p I would have to imagine ) for $37. And yes I bough a pair and took them up on the free shipping. I am aware of what low distortion bass sounds like with my 4 dipole Peerless XLS12's and 2 Rhythmik Servos, so dont call me deaf. Did I mention they were $37? Ten of those things will run you $370. They'll move some air. Ok. Now if I can just get around to actually using them in that project....
Cheers,
AJ
. My lengthy search for maxiumum bang (boom?) for my (bass) dollar, ended here with these:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009V3TS/sz-ce-20/ref=nosim/102-8884637-5408938
15" driver with a claimed (by Pyle - not me!) 24mm Xmax (p-p I would have to imagine
) for $37. And yes I bough a pair and took them up on the free shipping. I am aware of what low distortion bass sounds like with my 4 dipole Peerless XLS12's and 2 Rhythmik Servos, so dont call me deaf. Did I mention they were $37? Ten of those things will run you $370. They'll move some air. Ok. Now if I can just get around to actually using them in that project....Cheers,
AJ
AJinFLA said:I'm going to ignore any rules, since that is what I do best
With a Qts of 0.73, these might make interesting dipole subwoofer material, assuming they are not really noisy in operation.
The first subwoofer I designed (In '92 for a friend) used 2- 12" pyle woofers, each in ~5 cubic feet and tuned to 28Hz with either 4" or 6" ABS pipes. There was no internal bracing and let me tell you those 3/4" plywood cabs would vibrate, but only about as much as the sheetrock on his walls
My RS SPL meter registered 118dB in his basement.On topic, though, I think the LDSG has a Vd/$ column - or it used to - Vd being volume displacement or Sd*Xmax....
newbie question
I'm a newbie on speakers but I'm interrested in trying out the infinate baffle subwoofer. Will the pyle woofers work for this? Usually infinate baffle needs more woofers for the same effect but with this price I guess you could easily afford them.
Would anybody know if 6 woofers would be enough for a 22feet by 15feet room used solely for HT.
Thanks
Exipnos
I'm a newbie on speakers but I'm interrested in trying out the infinate baffle subwoofer. Will the pyle woofers work for this? Usually infinate baffle needs more woofers for the same effect but with this price I guess you could easily afford them.
Would anybody know if 6 woofers would be enough for a 22feet by 15feet room used solely for HT.
Thanks
Exipnos
Hi Exipnos,
I'm far from an IB expert, but I don't see why, based on the specs, that they coudn't be used that way. That might actually help if there is vent noise. The beauty of course is that you could use lots of them for not much $$$. I would imagine that 6 or better yet 8 - since you could series/parallel and still maintain 4ohm. Unless they are absolutely terrible, which I doubt, since Pyle has been making drivers for a long time. 8 should pack enough wallop for HT even in a room that large.
BassAwdyO,
you asked for maximum bang for buck and I have yet to see anyone else suggest anything remotely similar. I'm puzzled by your comments. OF COURSE, the 1200 watt peak is unrealistic unless its maybe a 300Hz tone,etc. What exactly would you expect for a $37 car subwoofer? Realistic claims? Those flimsy $50 amps at the auto parts store are going to claim 1000w (peak) output. Take it with a grain of salt. ESPECIALLY since you understand audio enough to know exactly what these claims mean. Now have I measured anything yet? No. I would be absolutey shocked if this turns out to be a great driver. But I paid $74/pr - delivered, without the hassle of buying used on ebay,etc. If the claims are even half correct I'll be tickled. The Sd is still a 15" driver! That much is true. Also I'm not sure where the 2"coil came from, but the manual says 2.5" and appears to measure as such. I'll know exactly what it is when I remove the dustcap. It actually appears to be decently built. It has cooling vents around the spider, nice touch IMHO, as well as the rear vent - which looks rather small. Vent noise won't matter much without the cap though. Do you have a better value to suggest?
It's your thread. I'd certainly be curious to find out about other possible good or better deals out there. Please let us know.
Cheers,
AJ
I'm far from an IB expert, but I don't see why, based on the specs, that they coudn't be used that way. That might actually help if there is vent noise. The beauty of course is that you could use lots of them for not much $$$. I would imagine that 6 or better yet 8 - since you could series/parallel and still maintain 4ohm. Unless they are absolutely terrible, which I doubt, since Pyle has been making drivers for a long time. 8 should pack enough wallop for HT even in a room that large.
BassAwdyO,
you asked for maximum bang for buck and I have yet to see anyone else suggest anything remotely similar. I'm puzzled by your comments. OF COURSE, the 1200 watt peak is unrealistic unless its maybe a 300Hz tone,etc. What exactly would you expect for a $37 car subwoofer? Realistic claims? Those flimsy $50 amps at the auto parts store are going to claim 1000w (peak) output. Take it with a grain of salt. ESPECIALLY since you understand audio enough to know exactly what these claims mean. Now have I measured anything yet? No. I would be absolutey shocked if this turns out to be a great driver. But I paid $74/pr - delivered, without the hassle of buying used on ebay,etc. If the claims are even half correct I'll be tickled. The Sd is still a 15" driver! That much is true. Also I'm not sure where the 2"coil came from, but the manual says 2.5" and appears to measure as such. I'll know exactly what it is when I remove the dustcap. It actually appears to be decently built. It has cooling vents around the spider, nice touch IMHO, as well as the rear vent - which looks rather small. Vent noise won't matter much without the cap though. Do you have a better value to suggest?
It's your thread. I'd certainly be curious to find out about other possible good or better deals out there. Please let us know.
Cheers,
AJ
Attachments
Best bang for the buck was the Ascendant Audio Atlas 15 on sale. Now it's sold out hehe!
Now I think the best bang for the buck might be this :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-455&DID=7
Now I think the best bang for the buck might be this :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-455&DID=7
One thing I've learnt about "bang for buck" is that you have to consider amplifier power and box size. Here's some examples:
* XLS works in a small box with a fairly low powered cheap amp but it's a bit more tricky to get down to 20 Hz - it would make a great bang for buck small box driver, but mostly that is messed up with a passive radiator
* Shiva wants a similar amp but gets a bit more SPL and depth and since its easy to get a vent into it, quite a decent bang for buck driver, or at least it WAS
* AV12 at first seems like more bang for buck when you look at the cost and xmax ... however, I find it works better with 650w and even with that much power you may not use all that excursion anyway, it takes just too much power in a vented box
For this contest, I think the winner is likely to be something that's big with a fairly low xmax. Bigger will have more bang for buck until it gets to the point that a cheap stamped basket won't suffice. Dayton Quattro 15" is probably a good contender - a quick sealed box sim in WinISD says it can do 111 db @ 40 Hz max SPL ... so at $80 its gets 1.4 db / $
Is that how you want to rate? db/$?
I had a look at the Pyle woofer - it has no mention of xmax that I can see, although at that price its likely a strong contender if xmax is decent - on their site they don't state xmax
I was thinking PA drivers might have a good chance, but the Dayton 18" costs more than the Quattro for less output.
I'd like to see something that can beat the Quattro with a regular price.
* XLS works in a small box with a fairly low powered cheap amp but it's a bit more tricky to get down to 20 Hz - it would make a great bang for buck small box driver, but mostly that is messed up with a passive radiator
* Shiva wants a similar amp but gets a bit more SPL and depth and since its easy to get a vent into it, quite a decent bang for buck driver, or at least it WAS
* AV12 at first seems like more bang for buck when you look at the cost and xmax ... however, I find it works better with 650w and even with that much power you may not use all that excursion anyway, it takes just too much power in a vented box
For this contest, I think the winner is likely to be something that's big with a fairly low xmax. Bigger will have more bang for buck until it gets to the point that a cheap stamped basket won't suffice. Dayton Quattro 15" is probably a good contender - a quick sealed box sim in WinISD says it can do 111 db @ 40 Hz max SPL ... so at $80 its gets 1.4 db / $
Is that how you want to rate? db/$?
I had a look at the Pyle woofer - it has no mention of xmax that I can see, although at that price its likely a strong contender if xmax is decent - on their site they don't state xmax
I was thinking PA drivers might have a good chance, but the Dayton 18" costs more than the Quattro for less output.
I'd like to see something that can beat the Quattro with a regular price.
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