Question for Aussies - LSK S150 sub or build other?

[Todo]

Im really tempted by the loudspeakerkit S150 sub, for $549.

http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/index.php?page=subwoofer&kitid=S150


However, I was wondering if its possible to build something cheaper that is just as good if not better than the s150.

This amplifier, for $216, would be similar wouldnt it?

http://www.advanceae.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=14_19&products_id=2332

Or the jaycar one I think is about $300.

What woofer would I source?

Is it possible to build better for less money?


Any advice would be much appreciated, thx.

 

[rabbitz]

The LSK does have a good reputation and is an easy way to build a sub as all the hard work has been done.

You could build a better one using the plate amp from Advance Audio with the Peerless 10"XLS subwoofer also available from them.

http://www.advanceae.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_68&products_id=2468

Would cost about the same with some MDF and other bits and shipping is cheap from Advance Audio ($8 only) and when you add in shipping from LSK for the S150. There are plenty of designs around using the Peerless 10" XLS and is a very nice and highly regarded subwoofer.

 

[phs]

diy is more fun!

check out http://www.acousticconcepts.com.au/
as they are in melbourne and stock the Shiva 12, Tempest 15 and Adire DPL12, all bone crunching!

depending what amp you choose, they will easily outpower that kit.

 

[Todo]

so the shiva from acousticconcepts, at $272.50. I dont need to factor in postage as I can pick up.

The amp from advanceae at $216, with $8 postage.

Brings it up to roughly $500.

Then the wood, port, stuffing etc shouldnt total more than $50 would it?

And using one of the adire audio designs, would this subwoofer perform better than the lsk one?

Is the advanceae amp decent? Its rated at 150w into 8 ohms, same as the lsk one.

Or is the 150w into 8 ohms from jaycar at $329 better?

http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productVi...&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=443


Is the shiva 8 ohms?

 

[tktran]

Jaycar and AdvanceAE stock 3 amplifier modules.

Same power rating, physical size, even the description is the same. I suspect they are the very same amp modules.

The LSK S250 uses a similiar 250W amplifier module to the 240W ones you mention. It also uses a Dayton 12" DVC driver, which is reportedly a clone/derivative of the Adire Shiva 12" DVC driver.

this subwoofer perform better than the lsk one?

Depending on your final design it would be a competitor of the the S250.

 

[busterno1]

the peerless would be a bit cheaper from wes components .com

they have amp as well . dont know what they are like . shipping is $ 9.00 .

 

[Todo]

the advanceae and jaycar amps appear to have the same specifications, but look noticeably different. The $100 difference has me stumped!

i read that the shiva is 4 ohms. The s150 is 150w, so i assume it uses a 8 ohm woofer. Do does this mean I would be getting 240w from the amp?

What are the advantages/disadvantages between 4 ohm and 8 ohm from the amp?

Jaycar amp

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Advanceae amp

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[phs]

hey todo
same manufacturer, different models
i used to sell them

top one is 240wrms into 4ohm, 150wrms into 8ohm
bottom one is 240wrms into 4ohm, 290wrms into 2ohm FROM 12VDC
as you can see the GND REM and BAT gold screw terminals down the bottom. theyve got their amp pics mixed up, so they are actually identical.

if you can find anyone with an ABN, like busterno1 suggested try wescomponents.com otherwise, whoever is cheaper

yes, if shiva is 4 ohm, you will be getting 240wrms

you can get a 1200x900? sheet of 16mm mdf from bunnings for about $33. the 25mm sheet is a whopping $80? if you use lots of bracing the 16mm should be enough, glue screws etc another $15, should be ok.

guessing by the pics and descrip the LSK S150 uses a cheaper polyprop woofer, which is no match for the shiva. then again maybe go into LSK and demo it?

 

[NorthNarra]

Unless you happen to be the Supply Chain Manager for an MDF business... Well there's got to be some perks in being in manufacturing

I just bought 40 sheets of 18mm 2700x600mm from my company (Pinepanels) for the whopping total discounted cost of $150AUD.

Now, I've just got to figure out what use to put it all to, hence my perusal of this excellent thread. I've been hangin out in other forums and only just stumbled on to this one.

I've got a Marantz SR7400 AV Receiver and am looking to build my whole 5.1 channels worth of speakers. Thought I'd start with the easiest one, the SW.

So this site is just what I was looking for

 

[busterno1]

If you can get a ABN no the peerless 10" is $190 + shipping

 

[Todo]

thanks for the advice guys.

Another question.

Does anyone know what amplifier module the jaycar 150w 12" sub has?

http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productVi...&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=530


I have an opportunity to purchase one for less than $200, and if it has the same 240w 4ohm/150w 8ohm amp as they sell separately, i could pull it out of that.

 

[phs]

no, that 12" contains a 150wrms into 4 ohm, 100wrms into 8ohm plate amp.

there are no more shortcuts, unless you have an ABN and get dealer pricing

 

[Todo]

heh, ok so you think the shiva with the 240w into 4 ohm amp is the way to go?

Is there any disadvantage to it being 4 ohm, must my receiver be bale to handle it?

Would it outperform the lsk s150 for sure?

 

[phs]

yes, look around for box designs and user reviews for the shiva
all your receiver needs its a sub out/lineout to the amp
the amp is what needs to be 4ohm stable, and it is
for that amp a 4ohm sub is better, more power
the shiva will annihilate that polyprop woofer if you build a nice box

 

[rnoble]

The Shiva with the 250w amp is in another class to the S150, it's in the same calss as the S250. MDF will cost you a bit but I would be wary of anything under 18mm for a sub, gotta have a solid sub!

Also if you get the shiva you can follow Adire audio's build whitepapers from www.adireaudio.com. If you want to go sealed the shiva sealed paper is here and the vented whitepaper is here . After that it's just a matter of cutting up the timber and putting it together, which adds in the cost of tools if you don't have them already.

PS: Can't anyone buy speaker drivers from WES or do you have to be a business? How does one buy vifa drivers in Aus if they can't from WES?

 

[phs]

you can, they just redirect you to http://www.wagner.net.au/ and charge you retail

 

[busterno1]

you don't have to be in business to get them at trade from wes you just need a ABN you can use any ones someone you know . a business you work for or a family member works for

wes has the best range of vifa driver in Oz . they are the australian distributors for all DST drivers

 

[paulspencer]

The LSK sub you mention is very good value and hard to beat. It's hard to build a decent sub for less. However, as others have mentioned, it's not hard to build a better sub for a little more.

Peerless XLS is an excellent driver which you can get for $220 (12" version) - I see no reason to go for the 10" not much cheaper really ($190). This sub is great in a small sealed box. Wes Components also have a 200w plate amp for ~$250. Add a little for MDF and finishing and you probably end up spending ~$600 to do it well.

The Shiva costs more ($300)and is not quite as well built, and not quite as articulate, but you can put it in a bigger box and easily do a vented design and get deeper bass and a bit more output.

Both are good subs. For music I'd go for the XLS in a small sealed box, and the Shiva for HT in a vented box. Still, both will do a good job at both.

I have seen Whatmoughs top of the range new speakers, which will be released soon at ~$25k and they use an XLS per side. They are used in other high end designs, it's a very good sub and extremely good value.

The Shiva is very similar to the driver in the more expensive LSK sub kits.

 

[tktran]

I haven't had a chance to play with the XLS myself, but from modelling it, just be aware Todo that in a sealed box it seems to me that it needs a bit of equalization or Linkwitz transform.

The Qts is just too low.

I recall Rick Craig over at Madisound once threw it in a small (ie <50L) sealed box, and placed it in the corner to see if boundary reinforcement would help.

IIRC, he said sounded something like a 6.5" midbass, not a 12" subwoofer.

 

[paulspencer]

I haven't had a chance to play with the XLS myself, but from modelling it, just be aware Todo that in a sealed box it seems to me that it needs a bit of equalization or Linkwitz transform.

As you said, it has a low Qts compared to most sub drivers as well as a low fs, which means it has early rolloff. There are two good examples of using this driver with some instructions on how to deal with eq of this driver:

* Linkwitz Thor
* Critical Q subwoofer - this has instructions on how to use this with a particular plate amp so that it provides eq to extend the response so you don't need a Linkwitz Transform

If you want a sub to sound its best, I consider eq essential, firstly to get the response you want out of a sealed sub (if applicable), and secondly to deal with room issues.

IIRC, he said sounded something like a 6.5" midbass, not a 12" subwoofer.

If set up correctly, you won't have this problem. I have heard the XLS used in three systems. The first was an LSK kit with a passive radiator (now discontinued), the second was a 12" XLS per side in Whatmough's latest top of the range speaker (which uses some of Scan Speak's best drivers - a ~$25k speaker), and the third was a PR sub which Andrew Muir (Tetra Acoustics) brought to a recent DIY speaker event at my house. After hearing 8 speakers on that day, including 3 TLs, I can tell you the sound is nothing like a 6.5" midbass. If it is then something is wrong with the setup.

The XLS can be found in a number of high end systems and has been used in a number of kits as well. In Australia I think it's better value than the Shiva at $220 vs $300 for the Shiva (the price quoted earlier was not including GST). The only caveat I would add is that its design means it is not quite as flexible as the Shiva - it tends to suit a small sealed or passive radiator design. If you want a mid - large sized vented box then the Shiva is more suited to this. Try designing a vented XLS box and you will find the vent is too long for the box.