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Old 13th October 2021, 01:21 PM   #11
Surtsey is offline Surtsey  United Kingdom
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Chris, as much as respect your expertise. you have gone above and beyond trying to put lipstick on a pig. Give any other small bass driver a 30 litre cabinet and a piece of prime real estate in the corner of the room it will out-perform the specified hardware.
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Old 13th October 2021, 09:57 PM   #12
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Agreed. It's a big box for a couple of small drivers, and a good 8-10" driver would have a huge performance advantage. Even the cheap MCM long-excursion woofer (55-2421) in a sealed box would demolish the 4th order bandpass I posted on the previous page.

Trying to make the most out of a given driver/cabinet/volume/whatever keeps the tools sharp, though, so I'm happy to have a go when time permits.

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Old 13th October 2021, 11:51 PM   #13
wiseoldtech is offline wiseoldtech  United States
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An 8" woofer is the minimal IMO for satisfying bass in the average room.
Like mentioned before, you need to move some air.
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Old 14th October 2021, 06:10 AM   #14
waxx is offline waxx  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseoldtech View Post
An 8" woofer is the minimal IMO for satisfying bass in the average room.
Like mentioned before, you need to move some air.
Wel, i don't agree, you can get a satisfying bass out of smaller drivers. I do it with a 6" fullrange in a big MLTL, and get a good bass out of it to about 32Hz F3 in a room of 3.5x6x2.5m. But that driver, the Mark Audio CHN110, has decent xmax (8mm) and BL (5.82), and i use a huge cabinet that emphase the bass (see pic of the cabinet, still in prototype phase).

That Visaton does not have the xmax or BL to do that, and a 4" cone is very small, so very hard to impossible to get loud bass out of it. Even in an TL type of cabinet it won't give loud bass. And it's true that a bigger cone can do it easier. But you can get a decent bass out of the right small cone in the right cabinet.
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Old 17th October 2021, 12:31 PM   #15
Surtsey is offline Surtsey  United Kingdom
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You seen to have a weird obsession with Xmax to the point you exclude all other options. I can't only guess the volume of your enclosure but I surmise that I can rotate your design by 90 degrees, install two, bargain basement 10" drivers and surpass your 32Hz output by 10dB.

Contrary to the popular mantra, "Watts are cheap" - they are not. Your system would require 10x the power to produce the same amount of bass - not cheap.
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Old 17th October 2021, 02:30 PM   #16
waxx is offline waxx  Belgium
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Originally Posted by Surtsey View Post
You seen to have a weird obsession with Xmax to the point you exclude all other options. I can't only guess the volume of your enclosure but I surmise that I can rotate your design by 90 degrees, install two, bargain basement 10" drivers and surpass your 32Hz output by 10dB.

Contrary to the popular mantra, "Watts are cheap" - they are not. Your system would require 10x the power to produce the same amount of bass - not cheap.
I go by specs, not by guessing. And yes, 10" woofers will give more bass than a 6" fullrange driver. Especially 2. How much bass is determinded by how much air you can move, and a bigger cone (10" vs 6") moves more air than a smaller one with the same xmax. So when you want to use very small cone drivers, you need more xmax to give the same bass. And BL is important to show the motor strength to move the cone. What i wanted to say is a 4" cone with little xmax won't give loud bass. Silent is possible if you force it, but loud will never happen. Just like the volume of my 6" fullrange is limited if you tune it that low.

And tha cabinet is big because it's a MLTL, in a reflex i can't tune it that low, but even a bit higher the box will be much smaller. But the group delay will be longer and so the sound more smeared (i'm picky now). If that is no issue for you (and for most it isn't), then use a reflex, and don't bother the complex calculations for an MLTL or the big size. But for that matters...
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