I'm adding another +1 to this.
Pipe organ is there, I've used various organ synths extensively. Most synths are made to mimic natural instruments one way or another...
Taiwan Girl (Li,Li-Chin) play Super mario bros on Chinese Instrument Sheng - YouTube
Junglist choons is not the best thing to drag out when you're trying to talk about low frequency music, quite a lot of it stops at around 40hz because it's usually more or less optimalized for stacks of 18" PA subs.
I really like jungle/d'n'b, but it's not exactly the definition of deep bass. Good bass, and alot of it, but deep? Not very.
Yes, sorry about that, but it's a closer approximation to that classic Nintendo 8bit sound than what you get on a piano IMO. 
The point being: Waste of calories to try and argue that electronic music is more demanding of the system than conventional instruments. Depends on the composition, instruments used, mastering +++
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Trying to faithfully reproduce a church organ to 16hz in 4/pi would be quite demanding as well.
The point being: Waste of calories to try and argue that electronic music is more demanding of the system than conventional instruments. Depends on the composition, instruments used, mastering +++
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Trying to faithfully reproduce a church organ to 16hz in 4/pi would be quite demanding as well.
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Yes, sorry about that, but it's a closer approximation to that classic Nintendo 8bit sound than what you get on a piano IMO.
The point being: Waste of calories to try and argue that electronic music is more demanding of the system than conventional instruments. Depends on the composition, instruments used, mastering +++
With respect, the most popular genres of the last 30 years have made little or no attempt to entirely replicate classic instruments. As a relative of a sound engineer with an emmy - I know this to be true.
(Black dance genres) RnB / Hip-Hop / Garage / Drum and Bass) Are mixed very differently. In addition to the bass track there is sub-bass track.
Sorry to cite R. Kelly but it's a good example. The first four notes of "Sex Me pt2" go: "dah dah-dah, BOOM! (with echo) (Sex me,baby)" The first three note are a replication of a bass guitar by the final note is beyond the scope.
Beyond that, I am the owner of several systems. There is an entire sub-bass track that smaller, weaker systems will not reproduce
Not the oldskool jungle, that was a deviation out of dub, and was ment to be played on dub soundsystems. Those use groups of 4 scoop horns as subwoofer system which couple to a tuning of 32Hz. And that oldskool jungle, before DnB, was produced like dub, but with different drum patterns and less in the upper range. It's only when it became more mainstream that they started to use mainstream pa systems tuned to 40Hz. Real hardcore underground junglist crews still use that style of soundsystems btw as modern pa systems can't play the tunes they play like it should. The photo attached is the soundsystem from the Monkey Bussiness junglist crew from Hasselt (Belgium) that are one of those crews who still use a dubstyle soundsystem for their raves.
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A lot of modern (european) electronic music that is not so mainstream have very low basslines. Going from Steppers (an electronic style of dub originated in the 80's in the UK), over Uk garage styles (llke wonky, 2step, grime, speedgarage, UK funky, bassline, ....), drill to glitchcore and other experimental electronic music. And even some mainstream pop have very deep basslines today. The time that the lowest note played in modern music was the 41Hz low E note of the bass guitar or piano is long gone. Synths can go way lower. And no, most synths are not only emulating more or less an existing instrument, those who do are called "romplers" by real synth lovers. Synths have their own sounds.
You're missing the point, what I'm saying is that: There are acoustic instruments made that in various combinations can cover a frequency range from 5hz and up over 35khz.
You where implying that somehow modern electronic music is more demanding to reproduce than acoustic. If you're talking about a lonesome singer with a single bog-standard guitar, then yes, perhaps you have a point.
Grand piano? 27,5hz.
I'm not saying that all synths try to mimic acoustic instruments, but they are made to work in the same frequency range.
Surtsey, I am seriously questioning whether ANY emmy nominations have had significant content below 30hz. Most probably drops a like rock from 40hz.
Pop culture has no room for niche styles and genres.
Waxx, I don't mind you adding a bit of info and all. We'd probably have a great time if we ever meet in real life, but I do want to point out a few things in my text.
This is a bit like that other thread discussing music a while back, where I humourously tried giving you a "Soul Vaccination", and you called me a "Zombie" back. I think Fela Kuti is fantastic, could be you where trying to educate me in music, and Fela is an excellent example of quality music with an abundance of heart and soul. But to my knowledge he never made a song or text giving people a "Soul vaccination". ToP is like the pop culture of big band music, it's common knowledge. Therefore not something I listen to frequently.
I don't know anyone here that listen to jungle/hard/tech/step anything, so would be great to visit sometime and have a few beers. Usually just sitting alone listening to any kind of quality music in any kind of genre because those inescapable emmy nominees is all people seem to listen to. Mass production...
Luckily have some neighbors that seem open to a bit of hard-ish electronica, so will give that a go at a garden party in a couple of weeks.
Hoping we can share some good vibes in the future. If you can reply like Higgo and say "that's pegged" it would be great.
Interlude - YouTube
Pop culture has no room for niche styles and genres.
Waxx, I don't mind you adding a bit of info and all. We'd probably have a great time if we ever meet in real life, but I do want to point out a few things in my text.
This is a bit like that other thread discussing music a while back, where I humourously tried giving you a "Soul Vaccination", and you called me a "Zombie" back.
I think Fela Kuti is fantastic, could be you where trying to educate me in music, and Fela is an excellent example of quality music with an abundance of heart and soul. But to my knowledge he never made a song or text giving people a "Soul vaccination". ToP is like the pop culture of big band music, it's common knowledge. Therefore not something I listen to frequently.I don't know anyone here that listen to jungle/hard/tech/step anything, so would be great to visit sometime and have a few beers. Usually just sitting alone listening to any kind of quality music in any kind of genre because those inescapable emmy nominees is all people seem to listen to. Mass production...
Luckily have some neighbors that seem open to a bit of hard-ish electronica, so will give that a go at a garden party in a couple of weeks.
Hoping we can share some good vibes in the future. If you can reply like Higgo and say "that's pegged" it would be great.
Interlude - YouTube
Surtsey, I am seriously questioning whether ANY emmy nominations have had significant content below 30hz. Most probably drops a like rock from 40hz.
Pop culture has no room for niche styles and genres.
Waxx, I don't mind you adding a bit of info and all. We'd probably have a great time if we ever meet in real life, but I do want to point out a few things in my text.
This is a bit like that other thread discussing music a while back, where I humourously tried giving you a "Soul Vaccination", and you called me a "Zombie" back.
I don't know anyone here that listen to jungle/hard/tech/step anything, so would be great to visit sometime and have a few beers. Usually just sitting alone listening to any kind of quality music in any kind of genre because those inescapable emmy nominees is all people seem to listen to. Mass production...
Luckily have some neighbors that seem open to a bit of hard-ish electronica, so will give that a go at a garden party in a couple of weeks.
Hoping we can share some good vibes in the future. If you can reply like Higgo and say "that's pegged" it would be great.
Interlude - YouTube
Well, that was mainly in my younger years, i even helped organising quiet a few of those raves (mainly as sound engineer) in the late 90's and 00's. But i still know the scene and follow it a bit from a distance. I'm mainly into reggae dub, jazz and afrobeat now actually, and i'm not often going out anymore. That life is a bit to much (dope) for me so i quit it...
But if you are near my place in Belgium, i can let you hear some stuff if you want. I'm not close to Norway, nor is it a place i visit (i go south always).
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I think you're missing MY point. The delinquent driving his turbo hatchback. in which the back seats have been removed to accommodate his subs isn't listening to the Peer Gynt Suite. It's Garage / RnB / Drum and Bass that emanates from his car as it distresses the entire neighbourhood.
In mixing many MOBO tracks there are traditional parts including bass guitar. Below the traditional tracks there is the sub-bass track(s), offering nothing musical, just the odd BOOM and GROWL. Sub-bass tracks are not prevalent in the mix as they eat into overall recording levels and the majority of systems are not capable of reproducing them. However, it is important the sounds exist. They are brought back to life when our boy-racer maxes-out the 31Hz slider on his EQ - like they knew he would.
I've actually got a pre-vocal part-mixdown vocal guide of an unreleased garage track. If you want to listen then let me know where to send it. Interesting sidebar: the sound card in my general computer cannot cope with both bass tracks - My HTPC has no problems.
Waxx,
Your history of Drum and Bass / Jungle / Dub-step is very sanitised. There was no tuning to PA stacks - there was no facility for the lay-person to 'tune' anything. (Jamaica was not know for its technology and the PC wasn't invented until 1981). A "PA System" involved cutting two holes for 12" speakers in your mother's old wardrobe and calling yourself a "sound system".
The technical equation was "Bigger Driver = Bigger Bass + Bigger Box = Even More Bass".
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That was true in the early days of dub soundsystems and reggae soundsystems. But jungle appeared arround 1988, and then they already were tuning systems with still with analog equipment (the infamous dub preamps) and using scoop horns in the UK. Even from long before that time was it that people like Jah Shaka and Jah Tubby's (still with Aba Shanti) and Channel One had their system tuned to as low as possible by experts among them. Those style sounds are still used today, and not so much has changed.
I’ve found this to be quite true.
something like a 14Hz church organ needs a high excursion, low distortion sub to reproduce or all you are actually hearing is the higher harmonics as distortion.
I’ve found that playing non audio people a truly low distortion sub bass system results in comments that “the bass is less” than they expected. What they are missing is the Diageo to on and the 50-60hz “hump” they associate with “big bass”.
If we are talking about the subwoofer for domestic space, don't forget that the soundsystems are designed to be used OUTSIDE of the building, and they usually sound horrible even in large venue.
That music is made originally for those soundsystems, and then people also wanted to hear it at home like that and therefor need very low and hard hitting subwoofers for home. Many here seems to forget that there is a huge divers musical world outside american pop, jazz and classical music, that often use other ways to enjoy or make music, and that ask other things than the US market.
But jungle, UK garage, ... builds further on the traditon of dub & reggae, with dj's mostly playing exlusive remixes of songs or "not released yet" stuff (both called "dubplates", cut to accetate plates in the past, but now just from cd. And when such a "not released yet" dubplate is successfull in the dance and the people know it, then it got released for the general public. That's how these soundsystem crews worked from back in the early ska & bluebeat (ancestors of reggae and dub) days in the late 1950's. And that is how it's still done in most of those underground scenes that have partial or full roots in the jamaican soundsystem tradition and no mainstream radio play. Even a lot of dance music took over that way of pushing tunes to the public.