If you were choosing a sub woofer, out of these 3 layouts which might you prefer and why? I realize it’s probably a bit vague, sorry, but just assume the CSAs are similar and the camber or offset chamber and actual main qw paths are similar in size with only the direction (or reflection) being different.
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If I try to go bigger in the expanding path section or I extend the actual exit(series), things get goofy really quick.
I then split into a ‘roar’ type layout and shrink the chamber more and more eventually leaving a long thin chamber, large expanding series exit and a plain TL in between the Tapped driver entries? as if it’s a TL and an acoustic amplifier(and skinny stub filter with polyfill if needed)?!
Ive made a few of those for fun with my ‘phone playing Spotify in the garage . . Maybe ROAR is essentially a TL in an amplifier... but if you exploit the last section of it with a flare rate.... it works for me? I think? Go big!!!? And it works out to the same response, just more if it. and the electrical needs change to maintain the same Xmax for excursion...
I then split into a ‘roar’ type layout and shrink the chamber more and more eventually leaving a long thin chamber, large expanding series exit and a plain TL in between the Tapped driver entries? as if it’s a TL and an acoustic amplifier(and skinny stub filter with polyfill if needed)?!
Ive made a few of those for fun with my ‘phone playing Spotify in the garage . . Maybe ROAR is essentially a TL in an amplifier... but if you exploit the last section of it with a flare rate.... it works for me? I think? Go big!!!? And it works out to the same response, just more if it. and the electrical needs change to maintain the same Xmax for excursion...
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It’s hard to do with the driver I have. It’s very powerful and Vas is tight. But Martin King described something similar and I had it working pretty good but the laptop crashed on me and i get mediocre versions of it now when I try.. sucks. I had a really good one there for a bit. I keep trying to find it...
Absolutely no tapped entries allowed! Lol??
I dunno , but my mentor has become confusing these days...I dunno what happened... maybe I should just build TLs.?
We can agree, what he describes is going to work quite well, but if I stick a taped driver in there?? Then what? Magic or taboo?
I dunno , but my mentor has become confusing these days...I dunno what happened... maybe I should just build TLs.?
We can agree, what he describes is going to work quite well, but if I stick a taped driver in there?? Then what? Magic or taboo?
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??? Tapped or not is same-same WRT to my answer.
Re MJK's response and if I'm understanding without the rest of the thread; he's [obviously] right in that this 'conversion' that I've used since day one of my designing 'tower'/'column' alignments of known good, ~assumed to have the uniform particle density sealed, reflexes T/S theory is based on requires increased net Vb with increasing length, though mine is strictly based on certain observations and his on well proven acoustic pressure wave theory, which as it turns out is quite a bit less than my 'one size fits all' ROT based on his 'classic' alignment design chart.
What was most interesting/downright 'head scratching' to me was that mine turned out to be ~ the mean of his 'growth' range based on net Vb, Fb[p]!
I mean, what are the odds unless there's some basic correlation I'm missing.
GM
Re MJK's response and if I'm understanding without the rest of the thread; he's [obviously] right in that this 'conversion' that I've used since day one of my designing 'tower'/'column' alignments of known good, ~assumed to have the uniform particle density sealed, reflexes T/S theory is based on requires increased net Vb with increasing length, though mine is strictly based on certain observations and his on well proven acoustic pressure wave theory, which as it turns out is quite a bit less than my 'one size fits all' ROT based on his 'classic' alignment design chart.
What was most interesting/downright 'head scratching' to me was that mine turned out to be ~ the mean of his 'growth' range based on net Vb, Fb[p]!
I mean, what are the odds unless there's some basic correlation I'm missing.
GM
Yes. I apologize for adding the ‘tapped’ , but I found it interesting that he is very certain to disregard those (he states he is unfamiliar and this cannot assist in ‘tapped pipes or horns’) which I find a respectable and appropriate answer for all things fair...
But there’s a lot going on as soon as we add that ‘opposite’ Output . And he might just find the complexity not worth the trouble as he can make the ideal ‘TL’ instead. However, it appears he’s moving forward a little... as this is the first hint of anything and hopefully not the last
Meanwhile, what do you mean in the last part of you response? Head scratching? You are often easier to understand as he is sometimes stuck in an engineers perspective, not so much a diy hands on saw dust type... he is a simulator, first, carpenter a distant second, I think he would agree. But that makes it hard to understand somethings, on both ends I think? To your credit your a published speaker builder/designer. That sometimes seems to close the gap of semantics or lingo? I dunno, but I appreciate you and your post tremendously.
But there’s a lot going on as soon as we add that ‘opposite’ Output . And he might just find the complexity not worth the trouble as he can make the ideal ‘TL’ instead. However, it appears he’s moving forward a little... as this is the first hint of anything and hopefully not the last
Meanwhile, what do you mean in the last part of you response? Head scratching? You are often easier to understand as he is sometimes stuck in an engineers perspective, not so much a diy hands on saw dust type... he is a simulator, first, carpenter a distant second, I think he would agree. But that makes it hard to understand somethings, on both ends I think? To your credit your a published speaker builder/designer. That sometimes seems to close the gap of semantics or lingo? I dunno, but I appreciate you and your post tremendously.
No biggie.
'Head scratching': Head-Scratching | Definition of Head-Scratching by Oxford Dictionary on Lexico.com also meaning of Head-Scratching
As for the rest, IME [online] you're being much too generous in your assessment of him, but then TTBOMK I'm one of the prime reasons he left DIYaudio, so no love lost on either side.
'Published'?! From dim memory I've never written a 'published' anything in audio beyond answering folk's Qs, though I'd planned to at one time or another, but did write some articles published in slot car racing magazines in the '60s under a 'nom de plume' since I was part of a development engineering team at a leading manufacturer.
BTW/FWIW, per a long gone forum 'conversation' extraneous from the subject, a famous [published] speaker designer told us in a rather blunt response to something MJK [IIRC] posted: ~ "You're not 'published' until you've published a paper with the appropriate Engineering Society." Seems like there was more detail, but this was the core message.
Regardless, it was a 'slap in the face' to someone like MJK who at the time of his 'publication' the most folks downloading from his site had JBL addresses IIRC.
I don't have any problems understanding him, just his math skills are way beyond me, so can't communicate that way and its my 'semantics'/'lingo' [among other things] he takes exception to, somehow deciding/claiming I don't understand the 'physics of the situation' because I choose to make-up monikers originally derived from his to help folks differentiate between the myriad ways TLs can be configured and 'dumbing down' confusing concepts like a 1/4 WL resonator that has a 1/2 WL harmonic structure.
Regardless, glad I can help folks experience having ~ as rewarding an audio hobby as I've had, though have to admit that the plethora of options, technology takes a lot of the fun out of it for me.
Now it's like hot rodding became decades ago where folks could just buy what we call[ed?] '1-800' hot rods or customs because you chose everything out of a catalog and someone built it. Rich man's full scale model car.
GM
'Head scratching': Head-Scratching | Definition of Head-Scratching by Oxford Dictionary on Lexico.com also meaning of Head-Scratching
As for the rest, IME [online] you're being much too generous in your assessment of him, but then TTBOMK I'm one of the prime reasons he left DIYaudio, so no love lost on either side.
'Published'?! From dim memory I've never written a 'published' anything in audio beyond answering folk's Qs, though I'd planned to at one time or another, but did write some articles published in slot car racing magazines in the '60s under a 'nom de plume' since I was part of a development engineering team at a leading manufacturer.
BTW/FWIW, per a long gone forum 'conversation' extraneous from the subject, a famous [published] speaker designer told us in a rather blunt response to something MJK [IIRC] posted: ~ "You're not 'published' until you've published a paper with the appropriate Engineering Society." Seems like there was more detail, but this was the core message.
Regardless, it was a 'slap in the face' to someone like MJK who at the time of his 'publication' the most folks downloading from his site had JBL addresses IIRC.
I don't have any problems understanding him, just his math skills are way beyond me, so can't communicate that way and its my 'semantics'/'lingo' [among other things] he takes exception to, somehow deciding/claiming I don't understand the 'physics of the situation' because I choose to make-up monikers originally derived from his to help folks differentiate between the myriad ways TLs can be configured and 'dumbing down' confusing concepts like a 1/4 WL resonator that has a 1/2 WL harmonic structure.
Regardless, glad I can help folks experience having ~ as rewarding an audio hobby as I've had, though have to admit that the plethora of options, technology takes a lot of the fun out of it for me.
Now it's like hot rodding became decades ago where folks could just buy what we call[ed?] '1-800' hot rods or customs because you chose everything out of a catalog and someone built it. Rich man's full scale model car.
GM
My good man, if you don’t know it already you have a place where you are needed. You are the voice of reason and maybe that is a measure of your worth and maybe it’s just a bunch of good info shared by you, but either way I don’t know you so who am I to say ?
Because of that I will risk being wrong or even get myself in trouble here:
You are a friendly solution. At the very least, you are excellent ideas and options., Martin is just arrogant dilution or old math a sim replaces and teaches.
both are extremely valuable to us all. but since this is my post/thread, I get to pick which is more valuable to the community and say it.
If mankind was being attacked by an alien invasion to earth and desperately needed to Make a few speakers to save humanity and somehow I was assigned the job to save the ‘world’. I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to choose who I would have if I could choose only two connections for info to do so on a smart phone or internet to a computer..
when the Martian’s are all dead and we are safe as a species ... I’ll be sure to remind the commander in chief that you and David Mcbean need your pensions adjusted accordingly and ‘rising rate’ will have a new meaning
FWIW, I got banned finally from MJKs Fb gRoup today for excessive drawings and trying to pursue more of MMJs ideas in the maths and theories of pipe harmonics of old and new(multiple qw paths, taped, etc ) and designs. Seems the problem with Martin is elevation. he’s too high up to see below himself. I think he thought I was looking up his skirt from below... lol.
Truth is I caught him snooping in MMJs area of things and your exhaust theory or chambers subject. I got excited and hoped it was genuine. Nope. Arrogance agsin. Old dog no new tricks... he’s lurking and it wasn’t me who caught him . Just happened to accept the scapegoat position. I’d grown sick of Martin anyhow. I wish him well, but his audience is shrinking fast.
MOAR.
Matthew
Organized an
Acoustical
Revolution
Not too bad of a place. I think you’re all invited unconditionally and if not sure, then now you know. MMJ not MJK...
Because of that I will risk being wrong or even get myself in trouble here:
You are a friendly solution. At the very least, you are excellent ideas and options., Martin is just arrogant dilution or old math a sim replaces and teaches.
both are extremely valuable to us all. but since this is my post/thread, I get to pick which is more valuable to the community and say it.
If mankind was being attacked by an alien invasion to earth and desperately needed to Make a few speakers to save humanity and somehow I was assigned the job to save the ‘world’. I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to choose who I would have if I could choose only two connections for info to do so on a smart phone or internet to a computer..
when the Martian’s are all dead and we are safe as a species ... I’ll be sure to remind the commander in chief that you and David Mcbean need your pensions adjusted accordingly and ‘rising rate’ will have a new meaning
FWIW, I got banned finally from MJKs Fb gRoup today for excessive drawings and trying to pursue more of MMJs ideas in the maths and theories of pipe harmonics of old and new(multiple qw paths, taped, etc ) and designs. Seems the problem with Martin is elevation. he’s too high up to see below himself. I think he thought I was looking up his skirt from below... lol.
Truth is I caught him snooping in MMJs area of things and your exhaust theory or chambers subject. I got excited and hoped it was genuine. Nope. Arrogance agsin. Old dog no new tricks... he’s lurking and it wasn’t me who caught him . Just happened to accept the scapegoat position. I’d grown sick of Martin anyhow. I wish him well, but his audience is shrinking fast.
MOAR.
Matthew
Organized an
Acoustical
Revolution
Not too bad of a place. I think you’re all invited unconditionally and if not sure, then now you know. MMJ not MJK...
As far as ‘published’, im just referring to a speaker design with your name on it.
It was a bit of an inspiration fir a friend who recently got a speaker design in the ‘parts express’ diy section features.
Off set exit to a large TL shape are more than people might realize? Especially, maybe, if used as a specific mass loading sized on a very large box otherwise! I could elaborate but I’m
Hoping there’s more ways to sim it then say it soon?!!! mass loading is one option, there a zillion others too!!.
It was a bit of an inspiration fir a friend who recently got a speaker design in the ‘parts express’ diy section features.
Off set exit to a large TL shape are more than people might realize? Especially, maybe, if used as a specific mass loading sized on a very large box otherwise! I could elaborate but I’m
Hoping there’s more ways to sim it then say it soon?!!! mass loading is one option, there a zillion others too!!.
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Yes, learned it early on when for a variety of good reasons I wanted leave all the audio, video, car, etc., forums, using finances as the reason only to have Southern Bell show up on my doorstep to install a several year paid-up DSL system on my birthday.
As for the rest, I'm not just a type 'A' personality, the seminar instructor called me a 'flaming' type 'A' that has spent his life trying to keep it in check, which in retrospect, sorry to say it has been pretty spotty at best and sorry to hear MJK apparently still can't 'see the forest for the trees' in his life, at least as it pertains to audio
.Anyway, we've gone way too far afield, Covid has made me 'cabin fever' crazy, so time to get out and 'move on down the track', what with the mass quantities of [mostly minor] storm damage I've got to deal with.........
Yes, lots of options, i.e. the pioneers converted electro-mechanical-acoustical devices into a pure electrical circuit to understand/manipulate them [horn, T/S, etc., theories], so seems reasonable that if it can be done as an electrical schematic, then vice versa, so one way to tackle complex loading systems; or just spend mega bucks on intake/exhaust system design programs and the computing power required to see results in a reasonable amount of time. Won't be as good as what Honda, Ford, et al, has, but far better than anything a DIYer will ever spend the requisite time on.
Then again, DMcB has done [guessing] at least an order of magnitude's worth of DIYer wish list 'upgrades' he swore he'd never do for one [good] reason or another, so 'hope springs eternal'
. GM
Yes, do have some of those........BTW, FWIW, was reminded I did get 'professionally published' of sorts in a ~ worldwide 'publication' [Eaton UPDATE] as an Application Engineer [i.e. 'jack o' trades, master of none']; got an 'attaboy' when all the Eaton/Cutler-Hammer folks involved in the custom electrical controls system of a complex off loading iron ore pellets conveyor system for the newest Great Lakes largest ship were singled out: MV Paul R. Tregurtha - Wikipedia
OK, now I'm done.
GM
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