Best Low End

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This forum has a dozen threads about building servo speakers. I've run servo sub on and off since 1968.

GM's earlier post was right: it is best way, no question. Anyone who has tried it will swear to that. Speakers (the most fallible component in our systems) are the component without feedback. That doesn't make sense.

I believe that you can accomplish 90% of the servo benefit with current feedback. However, you will need to buy a component to make it work: a half-Ohm resistor (in series with the driver).

In addition a trivial bit of everyday op-amp construction to the feedback back into the amp input. I've been experimenting with a mic mixer to accomplish that and more.

Some low freq EQ is needed - but that is doing nothing but restoring the watts the motional feedback took away. Except it is coming back as clean LF sound with astonishing transient impact.

Sound hard to do? Got a resistor? Got a mic mixer?

B.

If you say so, I don't pay any attention to DIY electronics.

No.

Yes, since a typical speaker cable run provides it.

No, don't need one since I already have the aforementioned 'acoustic solution to this acoustic problem'.

GM
 
Until recently, room treatment of course, but a recent exhibition of current prosound DSP capability left no doubt in my mind it can tame/blend both the room and speaker system to a fare-thee-well, though when done to the max it is much too 'dry'/'sterile' a presentation for my tastes, though the group in general seemed to love it.

GM
Interesting, tell me more, is it a viable solution in a small, average living room?
 
The ROAR15 is tuned to 43 Hz and is crossed over to a pair of Faital Pro 3FE22-based line sources.

This is something very different and much more pronounced then from simple 218 bass reflex boxes or similar otherwise capable systems.

View attachment 792764

Here is a single B&C 12PS100 in a ROAR12 tuned to 45 Hz sounding much more physical and tactile then a pair of B&C 18NW100 in 25 Hz tuned and DSP-EQed bass reflex boxes. The whole 300 square meter large ware house and all the interior started to buzz and shake at a much lower spl then with the two single 18 BRs.

YouTube

Very nice. No doubt quite enjoyable.

My comments are based on my over the top amounts of bass, and then with mains that outrun even that.
Everyday is a pair of double 18"s tuned to 31Hz, sometimes I add considerably more sub power (outdoors) when the wine is flowing :)

My experience is that good bass only comes from a complete good system.
And honestly, the sub part is the easiest to get right, other than getting extension and SPL.

The tuning part...spot on phase and time alignment is more difficult than choice of sub I think (provided a requisite level of quality in the sub)
 
Equing and filtering errors for alignement can lead to ripple both in time (lagging) and response curve, and can give low satisfaction of even the better design. Filtering/Equing should be better considered as part of the system.

Sure, imo filtering/eqing is one of the prime components of the system.
Super important, and where most all systems could probably improve.

Me, I'm big into FIR and linear phase alignments, when i can afford modest latency.
 
This discussion is apples-and-oranges.

For advocates of motional feedback, having a good FR is trivial and just taken for granted as a basic feature that anybody with EQ can get. So boasting about achieving a flat or extended response is just a starting point of yesteryear.

Besides the ability to driver subs to produce clean sound below their system resonances, MFB advocates are chasing down distortion (which can be 10-20% in subs) and aiming for "fast" transients, tight bass and no "box sound".
 
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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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Can you make a comparison between force canceling and servo?
Which is better?
I like the force canceling because it eliminates the vibration of the box.
Servo I haven't heard yet.

They do 2 quote different things.

A sevo box adds a feedback look to the woofer circuit (a special sensor or extra voice coil) to make the speaker’s output more closely resemble the amplifier input.

A force cancelation system uses multiple woofers mounted such that each driver’s mechanical reactive energy is cancelled by the other driver, dramatically reducing the vibrational load on the box.

Ideally your push-push force cancelation woofer woud use 2 servo woofers in each box (and you need at least 2 boxes).

The Rythmic kit would be an easy place to start playing.

dave
 
Would a cardioid subwoofer improve the sound in the room or is the EQ correction sufficient?
Does the cardioid work in the room well below 100Hz, or just above?


A cardiode microphone is something known for its reduced collection lobe and focused primarily on the sound source, without capturing the sounds coming from the environment. All the opposite of the omnidirectional, typical of the old-fashioned radio recorders and modern cell phones.
A super-cardiode microphone is, for example, the one used by National Geographic professionals (chapoó for them) to capture the trill of a bird located 100 meters away. It is, like a rifle shot! (but not to kill the creature, but to perpetuate its beauty in a film)

Now, a cardiode subwoofer?
What do you mean by that terminology? :confused:
 
A cardiode microphone is something known for its reduced collection lobe and focused primarily on the sound source, without capturing the sounds coming from the environment. All the opposite of the omnidirectional, typical of the old-fashioned radio recorders and modern cell phones.
A super-cardiode microphone is, for example, the one used by National Geographic professionals (chapoó for them) to capture the trill of a bird located 100 meters away. It is, like a rifle shot! (but not to kill the creature, but to perpetuate its beauty in a film)

Now, a cardiode subwoofer?
What do you mean by that terminology? :confused:

Cardioid subwoofer for constant directivity.
It should reduce the room's influence, but how well does it work?
They are used in lives, but in the room does it make sense?
 
Cardioid subwoofer for constant directivity.
It should reduce the room's influence, but how well does it work?
They are used in lives, but in the room does it make sense?

It doesn't work well in small rooms.
For live, cardioid is used to reduce sub spill to particular spots to the rear or sides of the sub array. Typically somewhere in the stage area.
It needs room to breathe. Any nearby walls etc create mirror 'virtual' subs and reduce its effectiveness.
Cardioid also always diminishes the desirable front bass a bit, and generally makes a somewhat mushier sound.
 
I think this thread needs fixing.

For those few who have experienced MFB, there is no question that extending feedback to the weakest part of the chain is a big improvement in bass. But that's not a lot of people.

So I think that I and other MFB advocates should just sign off and leave the discussion to folks with no grasp of MFB and who want to debate what tweaks help passive speaker systems.

B.
 
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