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Old 29th August 2019, 08:50 PM   #1
mart34 is offline mart34  England
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Default Project 2 x Peerless XLS 10 20Hz tuned slot port subwoofer

Hi all,

I have two Peerless 830452 drivers which Im planning to put into a single slot ported enclosure. Picture of both drivers attached. I know I should be building two separate units to smooth out room modes but my partner would not accept this.

I know these drivers are best suited for either sealed enclosures or enclosures with passive radiators, but Im going ported. One of the reasons passive radiators are desired to compliment this driver, is due to sealed configuration not achieving good LFE due to steep roll off, and the ported configuration requiring very long and large csa ports to achieve good LFE without excessive port noise. Size is not an issue for me, I am only limiting myself by attempting to use a single 1220x2440 (4ft x 8ft) MDF panel. So, Im going with a 3.38 cubic foot enclosure, tuned to 20.6Hz with a slot port 11 x 3 x 55 long (27.5cm x 7.5cm x 140cm long), which limits port velocity to 21.5m/s @19.5Hz (≈6% SoS @ 343m/s) with 350W on each driver. This slot port has a csa equivalent to a single 6.5 diameter round port, which sounds very reasonable for two 10 drivers. Note: Peerless quote the XLS driver at 150Wrms, however, its well known these drivers can handle more, with majority of users running these at double their quoted rated power handling. 350W per driver pushes excursion to 13mm at ≈28Hz, peerless quote the xmax @12.5mm and Ive seen reports the Xmech is around 20mm so no issues. Cabinet will be 1 MDF all round, with double thickness front baffle. Ill round over the edges, and will attempt to paint for best finish I can possibly do (fair at best).

My current system consists of a digital source into a Denon AVR-1907 AV amp, currently powering two floor standing speakers in stereo.

Due to budget limitations, I have two options

1. Buy a minidsp 2x4 HD and configure two AO in stereo for the existing floor standers, and two AO in mono for the subwoofer drivers, and feed all four as analogues into the AV amp (Front L, Front R, Surround L, Surround R) providing 120W per channel. Note: The Denon av amp has 7 analogue ins, which can be used where the audio is decoded outboard in a DVD player for example and 7 analogues come into the amp from the player. Using the amp and minidsp in this manner, Ill have a better low pass filter, and will be able to configure a sub-sonic HPF. Although specification states 6-8 Ohm loads, Ive found Denon techs online stating that 4 Ohm loads can be driven with their AV amps worst case I trip on over-current protection at higher volume levels.

2. Buy a crown XLS 1002 drivecore series 2 and run with the built in LPF, but Ill have no sub-sonic HPF. This would be connected to the AV amps sub-out. In this scenario, Ill have to set limiters on the amp, which will be configured to not breach 20mm Xmech, which equates to 220W total (110W per driver). This is less power than if I were powering direct off the AV amp, so I dont really gain from this option !


If I buy the amp, Ill buy the minidsp next year, and visa versa, so next year Ill have both. My preference is to go the minidsp route, since power will be approx. the same and I get to play with a very cool box of tricks !

Winisd modelling attached for 350W per channel. Note: No HP or LP filters configured in the modelling, I have however put a second order high pass butterworth @ 8Hz to simulate the XLS natural roll off.

Ill model it in Hornresp too when I get a chance.

Couple of questions:-
Can someone kindly verify my design ?
Any foreseeable issues ? anything Ive overlooked ?
Opinions on which option to go for, crown XLS or minidsp ?
Anyone see a problem with me using the AV amp the way Im planning ?


Any advice and answers would be appreciated !! Many thanks in advance, Martin

Peerless 830452 data sheet here https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...spec-sheet.pdf

Denon AVR-1907 manual here - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...6h3Jud7lutRdvk

Minidsp 2x4 HD manual here - https://www.minidsp.com/images/docum...r%20Manual.pdf

Crown XLS 2 drivecore manual here
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...TxTJKGz8SB-xZs
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Peerless XLS 1 - Driver pic.jpg (699.5 KB, 790 views)
File Type: jpg Peerless XLS 2 - Dims.JPG (56.0 KB, 786 views)
File Type: jpg Peerless XLS 3 - Winisd SPL.JPG (153.9 KB, 793 views)
File Type: jpg Peerless XLS 4 - Excursion.JPG (132.1 KB, 768 views)
File Type: jpg Peerless XLS 5 - Winisd Velocity.JPG (149.7 KB, 761 views)

Last edited by mart34; 29th August 2019 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 30th August 2019, 01:43 AM   #2
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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I'd build a more cube box with the drivers opposing (on opposite faces) so you get push-push and place the slot at the back or bottom. I use the 830452 in a side firing vented design with a down firing port.
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Old 30th August 2019, 06:42 AM   #3
mart34 is offline mart34  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitz View Post
I'd build a more cube box with the drivers opposing (on opposite faces) so you get push-push and place the slot at the back or bottom. I use the 830452 in a side firing vented design with a down firing port.
Thanks but I'm putting both drivers on the front. I've gone over many different options for the construction, and I require a slim enclosure, but can accept tall and deep. If I put a driver on front and one on the back, I have no idea where the 1.4m port is going.

Plus i just have a personal preference for both drivers to be on the front .... it will weigh quite a lot so I wont be losing too much of the gains from opposed drivers.
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Old 30th August 2019, 11:17 AM   #4
mart34 is offline mart34  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitz View Post
I'd build a more cube box with the drivers opposing (on opposite faces) so you get push-push and place the slot at the back or bottom. I use the 830452 in a side firing vented design with a down firing port.
Should have asked - are you happy with the performance of the 830452 in your vented enclosure ?

Cheers
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Old 30th August 2019, 02:37 PM   #5
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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My port is on the bottom.

I've been using the 830452 sub since 2004 and never had an issue but I only use it for movies where it works a treat. No chuffing or bottoming out with my domestic use (250W plate amp). Some builders have had problems with the larger 830500.
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File Type: jpg RZ_xls_port.jpg (143.1 KB, 232 views)
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Old 30th August 2019, 06:28 PM   #6
mart34 is offline mart34  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitz View Post
My port is on the bottom.

I've been using the 830452 sub since 2004 and never had an issue but I only use it for movies where it works a treat. No chuffing or bottoming out with my domestic use (250W plate amp). Some builders have had problems with the larger 830500.
Nice build, liking the huge flared port. What's the tuning frequency?
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Old 30th August 2019, 08:56 PM   #7
Jag768 is offline Jag768  Netherlands
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Nice build. I have 8 xls10s in use at home in 4 sealed enclosures in a multisub setup. I would go ported if I ad the space.

Just one remark at the moment: I would buy the regular minidsp rather than the hd version; it's cheaper and actually better since the hd version has some issues with accuracy of the filters in the sublow frequency range
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Old 30th August 2019, 09:32 PM   #8
mart34 is offline mart34  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag768 View Post
Nice build. I have 8 xls10s in use at home in 4 sealed enclosures in a multisub setup. I would go ported if I ad the space.

Just one remark at the moment: I would buy the regular minidsp rather than the hd version; it's cheaper and actually better since the hd version has some issues with accuracy of the filters in the sublow frequency range
Thanks. 8 XLS 10" sounds rather impressive, do you have any photos / threads on your build? would be great to see that.

Regarding the Minidsp 2x4 HD, that's the first I've heard about filtration issues - do you have any further specifics about the issue so I can research online? Reason I'd considered the HD is due to the Digital Input which I need since my source is digital, and the fact it has a higher output voltage - 2V I believe. The standard minidsp only has max 0.9V. The crown XLS has two input sensitivities - 0.775 and 1.4V, but I'm still concerned I wont have the Vout to maximise the crown gain.
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Old 30th August 2019, 10:26 PM   #9
mart34 is offline mart34  England
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In fact, my budget this year might allow a third option -

3. Buy a crown XLS 1002 and a minidsp 2x4 (cheaper non HD version).

But for this option I'm really concerned the minidsp Vout wont be compatible with the Crown XLS input sensitivity. Has anybody used these two together? 0.9V out of minidsp into Crowns input with a 0.775V input sensitivity?

This sounds ok to me, but after hours of searching over last few months I haven't been able to confirm this anywhere.

Thanks
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Old 31st August 2019, 07:39 AM   #10
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mart34 View Post
What's the tuning frequency?
Fb=27.5Hz

There's an application note for the 10" XLS driver.
http://www.tymphany.com/wordpress/wp...ote-xlssub.pdf
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