We are in the finishing stages of completing a full rebuild of our living room.
As I want to keep my wife happy I have come up with the idea of hidden equipment with only the speakers visible (Boenicke W5 - which are very nice and very compact)
To add some low frequency grunt I am thinking about adding subs (although the W5's are capable of a full-bodied sounds despite their mini size)
With the renovation I had the opportunity to think forward and have some ideas ... one idea to be honest
If you look at the pictures below you can see the space under/behind the 15x15 cm wooden beams around the black steel frame. First I will put my equipment on the shelf attached to the frame and already modified my NAD pre-amp to accept an external IR sensor. This will put the equipment out of sight already but to the left and right of the shelf I still have some moderate space to put 2 subs.
I will make 2 custom enclosures which can be max. 70 cm wide, 50 cm deep and 20 cm high and still be invisible when sitting on the couch, net volume will be approx. 50 liters each ... the only available (logical?) orientation would be a down-firing sub. I have not selected any sub yet ....
As music is my primary goal I guess a sealed design would be best. Ad a plate amplifier with dsp functionality like this: Plate Amplifiers : PWR-ICE125 to be able to let it intergrate with the Boenicke. The power-amp for the Boenicke is an Odyssey Khartago
I added the dimensions for the living room to get an idea what the environment looks like. Looking at the pictures I guess you will realize the acoustic damping is moderate at best.
Please fire away with some ideas/suggestions or possible pitfalls having the subs done like that.
Here is the stereo in our former (much smaller) house:
The frame and buildup (stereo not installed yet):
The shelf cut to size (depth) to fit within the frame:
How it looks like when assembled and wood burner installed and impression of listening space, ceiling heigth is 270 cm in the low part and 300 cm in the main area.
As I want to keep my wife happy I have come up with the idea of hidden equipment with only the speakers visible (Boenicke W5 - which are very nice and very compact)
To add some low frequency grunt I am thinking about adding subs (although the W5's are capable of a full-bodied sounds despite their mini size)
With the renovation I had the opportunity to think forward and have some ideas ... one idea to be honest
If you look at the pictures below you can see the space under/behind the 15x15 cm wooden beams around the black steel frame. First I will put my equipment on the shelf attached to the frame and already modified my NAD pre-amp to accept an external IR sensor. This will put the equipment out of sight already but to the left and right of the shelf I still have some moderate space to put 2 subs.
I will make 2 custom enclosures which can be max. 70 cm wide, 50 cm deep and 20 cm high and still be invisible when sitting on the couch, net volume will be approx. 50 liters each ... the only available (logical?) orientation would be a down-firing sub. I have not selected any sub yet ....
As music is my primary goal I guess a sealed design would be best. Ad a plate amplifier with dsp functionality like this: Plate Amplifiers : PWR-ICE125 to be able to let it intergrate with the Boenicke. The power-amp for the Boenicke is an Odyssey Khartago
I added the dimensions for the living room to get an idea what the environment looks like. Looking at the pictures I guess you will realize the acoustic damping is moderate at best.
Please fire away with some ideas/suggestions or possible pitfalls having the subs done like that.
Here is the stereo in our former (much smaller) house:
The frame and buildup (stereo not installed yet):
The shelf cut to size (depth) to fit within the frame:
How it looks like when assembled and wood burner installed and impression of listening space, ceiling heigth is 270 cm in the low part and 300 cm in the main area.
Hi. Since the subs will be down firing and in a sealed box it is worth considering a smaller enclosure and a driver with a low compliance suspension in order to keep offset to a minimum. This will raise the resonant frequency but with the right driver it could be eq'd below resonance and you would end up with a well behaved subwoofer.
Thanks for the input.
I am not yet up to date with all subwoofer terminology.
The low compliance suspension is determined by what parameter?
And what value is considered “low” ?
Making smaller enclosures is always possible as I am only limted to go bigger by available space.
What size are you suggesting ? ... 30 liters ?
I guess with a sealed woofer is does not matter if I have a shallow and wide enclosure compared to a perfect symmetrical cube shape ?
I am not yet up to date with all subwoofer terminology.
The low compliance suspension is determined by what parameter?
And what value is considered “low” ?
Making smaller enclosures is always possible as I am only limted to go bigger by available space.
What size are you suggesting ? ... 30 liters ?
I guess with a sealed woofer is does not matter if I have a shallow and wide enclosure compared to a perfect symmetrical cube shape ?
Compliance is Cms, Vas is the measure most often used in calculations because the overall compliance includes the enclosure Driver TS Parameters: Cms (Compliance) & Vas (Compliance Equivalent Volume) >> speakerwizard.co.uk
Here is an example of a down firing sub which should help clarify some of the issues Pluto + subwoofer
The shape doesn't matter for a subwoofer.
Here is an example of a down firing sub which should help clarify some of the issues Pluto + subwoofer
The shape doesn't matter for a subwoofer.
Blivit
To minimize enclosure size use servo control technology. See Rythmik DS800 CI - Direct Servo subwoofer
dual 8" sealed sub for custom installations [1] and the F8 [2] for examples. Down-fireing high compliance drivers risks suspension sag over time. WHG
[1] Rythmik Audio 12" servo subwoofer " DS800 Custom Installation subwoofer
[2] Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 8" F8
To minimize enclosure size use servo control technology. See Rythmik DS800 CI - Direct Servo subwoofer
dual 8" sealed sub for custom installations [1] and the F8 [2] for examples. Down-fireing high compliance drivers risks suspension sag over time. WHG
[1] Rythmik Audio 12" servo subwoofer " DS800 Custom Installation subwoofer
[2] Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 8" F8
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If you want another direction, I like nearfield. Tall, long, shallow box behind couch. I'd make it a bit taller than couch, paint box white as walls but add a shelf on top with matching stained wood. Maybe wife would go for a movie theater style riser with sub. Carpet that similar to couch and vent into couch. Somehow build fitting into/under couch could be another option. Either TH or TL for me.
The Pluto+ looks like an interesting solution.
The Rythmik makes it too complex / expensive and probably will not fit my shallow enclusure.
Behind the couch is already a heating radiator with only few cm's space left.
And the long cables going from stereo to subs would need to go along the windows which is also not "WAF qualified"
As I have a concrete floor going under is also not an option.
With the setup within the steel frame for the equipment you won't see any cable expect the speaker cables which will emerge at the left and right to connect to the main speakers.
The rest of the speaker cable will be attached to the bottom of the wooden beams bij cable clamps for a tidy end clean installation which also maximizes the optimal layout for "cable dressing"
The Rythmik makes it too complex / expensive and probably will not fit my shallow enclusure.
Behind the couch is already a heating radiator with only few cm's space left.
And the long cables going from stereo to subs would need to go along the windows which is also not "WAF qualified"
As I have a concrete floor going under is also not an option.
With the setup within the steel frame for the equipment you won't see any cable expect the speaker cables which will emerge at the left and right to connect to the main speakers.
The rest of the speaker cable will be attached to the bottom of the wooden beams bij cable clamps for a tidy end clean installation which also maximizes the optimal layout for "cable dressing"
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IB might be worth considering though if you have a wall you can put a hole in Loudspeakers | "Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" Hear The Bass, Not The Box The definitive online resource for Infinite Baffle subwoofer design Established 1999
Loudspeakers | "Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" Hear The Bass, Not The Box The definitive online resource for Infinite Baffle subwoofer design Established 1999
Too much thinking "in the box". With lots of room under the TV and skill at building, you can sequester the rear wave in various ways including a labyrinth, leaky sealed box, or giant OB... all of which will have nice non-box sound and need minimal amp.
Long pipe to sequester rear wave
B.
Long pipe to sequester rear wave
B.
I think I understand your point.
That would suggest preferring a single sub and make use of all available space to make that sub work best instead of going for 2 smaller enclosures with it's limitations ?
When I had the frame welded I had them weld some tabs to carry the plywood to install my equipment: see red rectangular
Here you see the tabs (frame is up-side-down on this picture):
It is center orientated but of course I can drill some new holes and make alternative brackets to move the plywood shelf all the way to the left and use the rest of the space for any sub setup.
This will give me a gross volume of 150 liters (5 cu-ft) to spend.
Size would be WxDxH :150 x 50 x 20 cm
I could increase height but want to keep it invisible and 20 cm is the limit to achieve that.
That would suggest preferring a single sub and make use of all available space to make that sub work best instead of going for 2 smaller enclosures with it's limitations ?
When I had the frame welded I had them weld some tabs to carry the plywood to install my equipment: see red rectangular
Here you see the tabs (frame is up-side-down on this picture):
It is center orientated but of course I can drill some new holes and make alternative brackets to move the plywood shelf all the way to the left and use the rest of the space for any sub setup.
This will give me a gross volume of 150 liters (5 cu-ft) to spend.
Size would be WxDxH :150 x 50 x 20 cm
I could increase height but want to keep it invisible and 20 cm is the limit to achieve that.
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Why ever choose two subs when you can "invest" in one great one? I've never heard convincing case made for or against the sound of mixed-bass bass. In recent years, many of us have gone to multiple subs and for very good reasons. But hard to predict for a given room which way to do the trade-off of multiple subs versus one great one.
To make a giant OB, it is just a matter of figuring out how to maximize "short circuit" distances between front and back of the driver. Not rocket science. Ditto for a labyrinth - the longer and more stuffed the better. Almost impossible to make a design that's no good. Ditto for a leaky box.
With any of those choices, the bottom end will be a matter of how low is the driver's resonance. Rather than sticking in a box that raises the resonance into a range that is too high for earthquakes.
B.
To make a giant OB, it is just a matter of figuring out how to maximize "short circuit" distances between front and back of the driver. Not rocket science. Ditto for a labyrinth - the longer and more stuffed the better. Almost impossible to make a design that's no good. Ditto for a leaky box.
With any of those choices, the bottom end will be a matter of how low is the driver's resonance. Rather than sticking in a box that raises the resonance into a range that is too high for earthquakes.
B.
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I guess for OB I can maximize the shortest distance to approx. 50 cm from centerpoint sub.
As low frequency wavelengths are multiple meters I wonder if 50 cm will be sufficient.
The 15x 15 cm beams have some interstices so there will be some upwards "breathing" too.
P.S. 50 cm is one way ... to reach the actual rear-side again we have approx. 1 meter
P.S. II: if I build a cabinet like the outer part of a match-box I have the farthest ends as OB which would give me 2x 75 = 150 cm ... looking better all the time
P.S. III: if I close one end of the cabinet put the sub close to that side I have an open end enclosure where the short-circuit would be approx. 2x 120 cm = 240 cm ....
As low frequency wavelengths are multiple meters I wonder if 50 cm will be sufficient.
The 15x 15 cm beams have some interstices so there will be some upwards "breathing" too.
P.S. 50 cm is one way ... to reach the actual rear-side again we have approx. 1 meter
P.S. II: if I build a cabinet like the outer part of a match-box I have the farthest ends as OB which would give me 2x 75 = 150 cm ... looking better all the time
P.S. III: if I close one end of the cabinet put the sub close to that side I have an open end enclosure where the short-circuit would be approx. 2x 120 cm = 240 cm ....
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