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15" sealed subs - simulated F3 values too high ??
15" sealed subs - simulated F3 values too high ??
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Old 14th July 2019, 01:27 PM   #1
audfrknaveen is offline audfrknaveen  India
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Default 15" sealed subs - simulated F3 values too high ??

Hi All,

I am trying to build sealed subs with 15" pro drivers.
In simulation with 100L box, I am getting the F3 values as shown in the attachments.

Aren't these F3 values too high for subwoofers??
Do they even sound like subs with these values?? Or do they just end up like mid bass?? Will they give tight and punchy bass for music??

We expect subwoofers to go down to 20hz or lower. So I am wondering if higher F3 is ok with larger drivers like 15" or 18"??

Should i look at drivers with rubber or foam surrounds?? Does it matter much?
I dont want boomy bass. Good transient responce is important for music.

Thanks in advance
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File Type: jpg 15inch sub F3.JPG (27.4 KB, 346 views)
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Old 14th July 2019, 08:56 PM   #2
David Morison is offline David Morison  Scotland
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Drivers designed for PA/Pro use accept different compromises than those intended for home/HiFi use.

One of these is that efficiency is more important, therefore they won't go as low in a given box size (Hoffman's Iron Law). Yet box size is indeed also important as portability is usually a factor.

Therefore, Pro/PA drivers are almost universally intended to be placed in vented or other higher order loading types, not sealed.

Even then, it is more typical to accept an F3 in the 35-45Hz ballpark rather than in the 20's.

So essentially the reason you're seeing such high F3's in sealed boxes is that you're trying to use the drivers in a way they weren't designed to be used.

Perhaps something from another market segment might suit better if sealed is a priority - do you have any access to Dayton for example where you are? Something from their RS or UM series might possibly be a better fit for your goals.
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Old 15th July 2019, 08:29 AM   #3
audfrknaveen is offline audfrknaveen  India
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please correct me if my understanding is wrong ....

Bass from large drivers sound better even if they have higher F3 compared to bass from smaller drivers with lower F3.

I mean 15" or 18" drivers with F3 is around 45hz. sound better compared to 6" or 8" drivers with F3 around 30hz. Is this correct?

I know "better" is subjective and my statement is too generic.

My whole point is ... with larger drivers 15" or bigger, can we go ahead and build the box if simulated F3 is 45 to 50?? Or will it fail to sound like a subwoofer completely?

Im getting below values with 15" driver in a sealed box:
F3=50hz
F6=40hz
F10=30hz
Is this ok for music?

Last edited by audfrknaveen; 15th July 2019 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 15th July 2019, 09:46 AM   #4
wonderfulaudio is offline wonderfulaudio
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See what happens when you port the 100L box to 25hz or 30hz and then simulate.
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Old 15th July 2019, 10:17 AM   #5
audfrknaveen is offline audfrknaveen  India
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unfortunately ... i can't port it.
This box is for my friend, and sealed is preferred.

Now all I am wondering is .... are these values ok for a 15" subwoofer (for music)

F3=50hz
F6=40hz
F10=30hz

I just need tight and precise bass (good transient responce)
Low end rumble (like movies) is not needed
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Old 15th July 2019, 11:17 AM   #6
wonderfulaudio is offline wonderfulaudio
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I would suggest two 12" car drivers mounted on opposite sides of the box. They will go lower (unassisted) and the box size may be smaller
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Old 15th July 2019, 12:04 PM   #7
audfrknaveen is offline audfrknaveen  India
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Thats something to try out !! Thanks a lot !!
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Old 15th July 2019, 07:40 PM   #8
Xoc1 is offline Xoc1  United Kingdom
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With a sealed cabinet you will be looking at adding EQ to get the bass response that you want.
Drivers with bigger x max will give you more bass, you will have to take in to account the excursion of the driver and the amount of power that will be needed.
As ever Hornresp will give you the answers you need.
This example is based on the Beyma 15WRS400. in a 100Litre sealed box.
This reaches x.max at about 40watts using a single boost at 41hz.
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File Type: jpg bema sealed 100L.jpg (162.3 KB, 288 views)
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Old 15th July 2019, 08:10 PM   #9
mashaffer is offline mashaffer  United States
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There are pro drivers with appropriate fs and qts to get lower but generally will require larger boxes. Have a look at usspeakers and partsexpress web sites for suitable candidates but if you are really limited to a tiny box you will probably be out of luck.
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Old 15th July 2019, 09:57 PM   #10
RobWells is offline RobWells  United Kingdom
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Maybe a Linkwitz transform to lower the F3 to around 30/35Hz could perform well.

Most people here seem to assume some form of PEQ will be used on subs so just build the small boxes and EQ / Highpass to get the required response and use enough boxes to get the required SPL.
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