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Which tapped horn best to pair with Klipsch La Scalas?
Which tapped horn best to pair with Klipsch La Scalas?
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Old 24th June 2019, 07:22 PM   #1
yyz99ss is offline yyz99ss  United States
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Default Which tapped horn best to pair with Klipsch La Scalas?

Hello to all...



Am new to this forum... have been reading numerous posts about making your own DIY tapped horn. Another forum dedicated to the larger Klipsch Heritage series recommended a horn-loaded sub to best compliment the La Scalas.


I enjoy building things, and have decided that building my own tapped horn sub would be a fun and rewarding project. And hopefully also I will end up with an impressive system without breaking the bank.



However, I'm now suffering from information overload! There are SO many designs out there...



I'm admittedly new to this stuff, and often have problems deciphering some of the abbreviations and acronyms used when talking shop about audio equipment and performance.



So, that being said, I'm interested in a simple-to-build design for my very first attempt. In terms of footprint, I'm OK with tall and slender, or short and fat (like the La Scalas) - but not tall AND fat.



I anticipate purchasing a dedicated subwoofer amp to power this thing, and suggestions for one of those would also be most appreciated.


Thanks in advance!
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Old 24th June 2019, 11:46 PM   #2
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Which tapped horn best to pair with Klipsch La Scalas?
Not feasible to introduce a sub without electronic XO and bi-amping.

Perhaps you might note that a "tapped horn" has almost no conceptual relation to the kind of horn like Klipsch is famous for. Ditto for the sound characteristics. So if there is any sense to "matching", a TH would be low on the list.

For all the reasons you've given, sounds like a simple sealed box might be at the top of your list. The bigger the better. Can't get simpler.

B.
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Old 24th June 2019, 11:55 PM   #3
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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I agree, the sound of a TH isn't a good match for the La Scala. THs got their own sound, some less, some to more extend. If you want to build a TH anyway, the Cubo 18 Extended as been reported to work fine.
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Old 25th June 2019, 05:51 AM   #4
yyz99ss is offline yyz99ss  United States
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Ok, so perhaps I don't need a "tapped horn" type of sub, per se...

But what about a folded-horn sub in general? I'm thinking of DIY projects like the Fitzmaurice Tuba HT, or the Decware WO32?

Here's a couple of links re: the former:

Tuba HT

Photobucket

And here's some info on the WO32:
The Decware WO32 - High Performance HORN Subwoofer

I have read several posts that basically suggest that a traditional sealed-box type of sub can't easily "keep up" with the speed of the La Scalas...

Hence my interest in using some type of folded horn sub, which I believe would have a similar concept to the La Scala design. The La Scalas are extremely efficient, and LOUD... but at higher volumes the bottom end of their sensitivity range (45Hz) leaves me wanting a bit more down LOW...

Lastly, Ben, you mentioned the need for an electronic crossover and bi-amping... forgive me but I really don't know much about those things. I was under the impression that I could simply connect my "sub-out" to a dedicated subwoofer amp, then on to the subwoofer itself (or, alternatively, directly from sub-out to a "plate-amp" on the subwoofer itself). Don't most subwoofer amps allow you to "dial in" the frequency response?

Are you saying that I need to make changes to the La Scala crossovers themselves? A lot of people do just that, and it's probably worth it (Crites and ALK are probably the best known suppliers of aftermarket crossovers for the Klipsch Heritage speakers). I just may do that some day, but didn't really want to start there... I'm just looking to fill in the low frequencies where the La Scalas are a bit anemic.

Again, please forgive my naivete... I'm learning as I go.
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Old 25th June 2019, 07:35 AM   #5
Circlomanen is offline Circlomanen  Sweden
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Quote:
the sound of a TH isn't a good match for the La Scala
Most tapped horns are tuned to deep in comparison to the driver Sd and Qts, which creates a somewhat slow and "heavy" character that does not match the La Scala's well.


With a more reasonable lower cut of in relation to the driver specs, the tapped horn sounds much more punchy and "alive".

A B&C 15TBX100 should not be tuned below 40 Hz if you want a nice dynamic and punchy character. Two 18DS115 is good for a 30 Hz tuning.

If you add a large quarterwave or Helmholtz front resonator you can get by with a lot smaller driver and still keep that punchy and dynamic character.
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Old 25th June 2019, 07:43 AM   #6
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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The WO32 isn't a good construction. The air load at the start of the throat is strong asymmetrically, in combination with the very high compression (=distortion) and with long excursion woofers the membrane starts to tumble very quickly. Aside from that, it's made for very heavy cones with low spl and high losses, each of it is not a good pairing for a horn, it also needs relatively high power (compared to other horns). The spl for 2x 10" in a horn of ~90 is a pure joke.

The very long excursion of some of the suggested drivers is not used in the horn, because a horn lowers the excursion a lot (air load). That means, the ends of the voice coils get hot and burn up at higher power because they can't dissipate the power to the pole plate. Aside from the VC burning up at high power, the high compression can cause snapping/banging noise from the surround and the mechanical stress on the membranes will be high, such constructions are known to 'eat' membranes and many drivers lose their dustcap because of the mechanical stress. Since the horn is very short and the mouth very small, it won't go much deeper than your La Scala.

I strongly suggest to avoid that construction.

I can't say much about the Tuba because nothing of the construction is visible. The measurements are promising so far but it will likely need some equalizing though, so a dsp would be a good idea.
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Old 25th June 2019, 08:38 AM   #7
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Which tapped horn best to pair with Klipsch La Scalas?
depending on how you made your La Scala, you could try the late DJK's vented mod which would add about 2 cubic foot to the rear chamber. It should be treated like a regular 6th order assisted bass reflex with underdamped 2nd order highpass filter. " - might sound "sluggish" ???) I'd assume a solid state amp would sound better than say SE tube with the vented mod.

The old Karlson K15, tuned low per "Exemplar" with Altec 515 (416 would be fine) should sound pretty good and it used boost at around its fb (~30Hz)

I can't think of a good reason why K15 would sound good tuned low as one would think the front chamber about out of the picture - but it does. Perhaps some of the secret is in the Altec drivers themselves with relatively low mass for such low fs.

One could build K15 with its standard port and make a port board to fit over the regular rectangular opening. 2 - 3" ID "street el" pvc elbows can be used but since the port is 4.5" wide, regular elbow will work fine.

Click the image to open in full size.

Several sealed boxes could be a practical option.

There are pretty good pictures of BFM's THTLP cabinet under construction - I may had done a sim (?) - yeah

Click the image to open in full size.

K33E's Q is a bit high for the vented mod

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 25th June 2019, 03:22 PM   #8
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Which tapped horn best to pair with Klipsch La Scalas?
fwiw, here's an interesting comparison of a 336 liter airspace THT-LP to a 114 liter airspace bass reflex, both in a solid corner. I applied a 3dB peaking boost at 31Hz to the 31Hz tuned reflex so output there is about the same as the horn.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:57 PM   #9
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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I have owned La Scalas in the past and wish I had kept them. As others have said a good sealed sub (or two if you can afford it) would be a good match. A great match would be a Rythmik direct servo sub. I use two F18's in my setup and highly recommend Rythmik's direct servo technology for best transient response and low distortion.

Rythmik produces subs and amps for diy applications. You can find measurements and reviews of their systems on Data-Bass. Here is an example of a 12" direct servo sub kit with a full set or REW measurements (from some time ago).

Good luck and enjoy those La Scalas!
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Old 26th June 2019, 06:47 AM   #10
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Which tapped horn best to pair with Klipsch La Scalas?
FWIW Diysoundgroup has a 15" "buyout" woofer for $150 which looks good in my THT-LP sim

Click the image to open in full size.
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