I've not driven for 25 years (vertigo) plus both hands are numb now so can't play bass/guitar and can only go by simulation. As shown before THAM18 appears to be tuned around 40Hz and CUBO18 (IF that sim input is right) about a half octave higher.
18HP1060 appears to have peaking at its bottom vs the lower mass 18Sound unit in the sim below, and the lossy Le model only makes matters look worse.
Look at and ask at Speakerplans.com for opinions -
here's one CUBO18 build there
depending upon kick drum tuning, CUBO might sound really good.
cubo 18 extended build - Speakerplans.com Forums
a favorable comment here - Cubo 18 Build
You should try to contact "CUBO" to get his ideas of your woofer and the regular version of CUBO18
Cubo 18
at least I didn't go off into a Karlson spiel
(but with the right driver could be about as good as anything else in its bulk range)
18HP1060 appears to have peaking at its bottom vs the lower mass 18Sound unit in the sim below, and the lossy Le model only makes matters look worse.
Look at and ask at Speakerplans.com for opinions -
here's one CUBO18 build there
depending upon kick drum tuning, CUBO might sound really good.
cubo 18 extended build - Speakerplans.com Forums
a favorable comment here - Cubo 18 Build
You should try to contact "CUBO" to get his ideas of your woofer and the regular version of CUBO18
Cubo 18
at least I didn't go off into a Karlson spiel
(but with the right driver could be about as good as anything else in its bulk range)
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Thank you Freddi.. I have spoken to mr Cubo a few times now. He’s basically said there’s not going to be much of a difference between the THAM 18 and the CUBO 18 in the real world.. he thinks because of the extra volume of the THAM18 it will result in a 1.5 to 2db of Extra gain and / or a few hz of lower extension over the CUBO and suggested i should build the THAM, but at the end of the day there’s not going to be any kind of night and day difference.
Side note, mr CUBO also Side he think that diver will perform well in both cabinets.
Side note, mr CUBO also Side he think that diver will perform well in both cabinets.
Because that is how the ROAR series work. At high spl you get into jet-formation and mouth vortices which greatly effect the radiation angle.
We demoed the ROAR for a company here in Sweden and they started to walk around in a large half circle, quite baffled by the pronounced low angle of radiation/ "long throw" of the design.
There is a large difference between a planar wave front resonator and an expanding horn duct that will produce a spherical pressure wave.
For maximum kick drum thud in the chest, why don't you look for some proper front loaded horn? Rog Mogales 1850 horn, as featured here Speakerplans.com
is bigger than the THAM18, but is guaranteed to flap your trousers and beat your chest. It drops off just around 50 Hz, that would be low enough for your purpose. 105 dB sensitivity and a snappy transient response.
If it seems challenging to build, you should be able to find some second hand locally, there should be lots floating around in the UK. Check speakerplans.com, there might be some on sale.
Understood; sound power falls at 6 dB/doubling of distance outdoors and acoustically large indoor venues, so what's the farthest/worst case you need 'x' peak SPL@'y' Hz?
This chart is a colorful version Altec referenced, so based on this, chest 'thump' is in the ~20-35 Hz range whereas 'boom/punch' is in the narrow ~100-180 Hz BW, so this is the range historically boosted to emphasize bass guitar, chest thump in general: Musical Frequency Spectrum : classicalmusic
FWIW, human organ resonances, which has little correlation to what we 'feel': Resonance frequencies of human body organs | Download Table
Based solely on this and Freddy's sims, neither gives you what you need in terms of BW, though the Tham comes closest as a single/channel or one of each as a good composite system/channel [or multiples of] depending on what your total 'x' peak SPL@'y' Hz 'demands': 18” horn loaded
Yes, a drum kit played as hard as practical requires one channel of this huge horn system, so this gives you some idea the size, number drivers required just to do this one instrument: 20,000 Watt Home Hi-Fi System
GM
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FWIW, way back when I got carried away playing with a 4th order BP for 'sub' duty and when all was said and done I had an 8" dia x 8 ft long tube attached to a sealed, cheap 8" driver I dubbed the 'sonic cannon'. Had to put it behind the couch, it had such a powerful 'kick'/'throw' to it [for the times, early '70s], so imagine your larger, more powerful compression loaded one 'kicks like a mule' in comparison
.GM
Uhm, no, it doesn't. In the near field it drops 3dB/double distance and in the far field it drops 6dB/double distance. And the near field drops sooner with lower frequencies. That's important if you got a line array or cluster because these setups increase the near field. It's also very different with other directional dispersion pattern setups in the bass, like in a spaced line, cardio or endfire arrangement. I've already linked a video in a post here.
As far as a single sub of the size the OP is considering, GM's statement that sound power falls at 6 dB/doubling of distance outdoors is correct at any distance worth considering from one meter on out.
I'll quote Pat Brown:
"A working “rule-of-thumb” for determining the boundary between near-field and far-field is to make the minimum measurement distance the longest dimension of the loudspeaker multiplied by 3.
He then writes:
It is often thought that a remote measurement position is necessary for low frequencies since their wavelengths are long. Actually the opposite is true. It is more difficult to get into the far-field of a device at high frequencies, since the shorter wavelengths make the criteria in Item 4 more difficult to satisfy.
Item 4:
4. The distance from the source where the path length difference for wave arrivals from points on the device on the surface plane perpendicular to the point of observation are within one-quarter wavelength at the highest frequency of interest .
This is an important distinction between high frequency and low frequency measurement, criteria #4 can be satisfied at 95 Hz for a subwoofer of one square meter measured at one meter, but to satisfy the same criterion for a one meter mid/high horn to 16 kHz would require a very long distance."
In regards to cardio or end fire sub arrangements, regardless of the dispersion pattern, they also conform to the inverse distance law, other than in the near field cancellation zone as defined in item 4 above. The near field in a line array exists for any frequency and distance where moving farther away will result in more drivers summing coherently (close to “in phase”), instead of incoherently. Once all the drivers sum coherently, the far field is attained.
As far as the OP's choice, the bigger, lower tuned box won't be as loud on an SPL meter as the smaller, higher tuned box, but will have less competition from the stage sound which can't go as loud down low, making that low frequency "weight" seem a bit louder by comparison. Takes only about a 5 dB difference at 40 Hz to sound "twice as loud", compared to around 10 dB around 1kHz.
Art
That's right, but
a. I didn't want to leave that standing that way because it was in no way mentioned for just this instance and that's just not the whole story and some readers might learn only the half of it
b. The OP got a Bose F1 system, which actually is a small LA, so it is still relevant.
Re Hoffman.
We can actually get around it, in a manner of speaking. When hoffman made the realization that bears h8s name, drivers were light and low xmax while amps were small.
Today...power is cheap and drivers have extremely robust cones with huge xmax.
So we can actually trade sensitivity for both enclosure size and lf extension.
The rule applies, we cannot break it, but we can easily afford to make the trade which gives us our desired output at low frequencies.
We can actually get around it, in a manner of speaking. When hoffman made the realization that bears h8s name, drivers were light and low xmax while amps were small.
Today...power is cheap and drivers have extremely robust cones with huge xmax.
So we can actually trade sensitivity for both enclosure size and lf extension.
The rule applies, we cannot break it, but we can easily afford to make the trade which gives us our desired output at low frequencies.
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