I think a 108 liter box would be fine. I really want deep bass down to 20 hertz.
I looked at some drivers again this morning - I think one that would be very nice for a sealed box home sub is the 18iPAL. Whereas the iPAL21 has Re=1 Ohm, the 18iPAL has Re=2 Ohm. That's still rather low for home audio, however, keep in mind that my analysis (of another driver) showed that the current was about 50% less at the lowest frequencies with a low Qts version of the driver. What that means is the current requirements for the 18iPAL might be more like what you would expect from a driver with Re=4 Ohms. Also, the Qts of the 18iPAL is an extremely low 0.14 and BL=30.3. You would still need a very high power amplifier, but it could be driven much more easily than the 21iPAL and with Xmax=20mm the 18iPAL still has plenty of displacement for home use.
Here is a link to a US Reseller:
US Speaker: B&C 18iPAL
What do people think about that driver for a sealed box home sub?
Here is a link to a US Reseller:
US Speaker: B&C 18iPAL
What do people think about that driver for a sealed box home sub?
When it comes to home subs for music use I find that 2 smaller subs usually work better than 1 large one. By that I mean 2 12” might work better than 1 18”. You can get a smoother response due to some averaging of room modes. Room modes are the elephants in the room when it comes to bass quality in small rooms. You can try to eq out the big peaks but you can’t fill in the nulls. IME it works better if you can average them out with multiple bass sources before you try to eq.
I switched from 1 sub with 2 15” drivers to 2 single 15” and bass is much easier to setup and adjust. I also seem to use less power which seems counterintuitive.
I switched from 1 sub with 2 15” drivers to 2 single 15” and bass is much easier to setup and adjust. I also seem to use less power which seems counterintuitive.
I haven't run the sims but this one claims 40 mm xmax, is 18" and recommends a 110L enclosure, it also has a normal voice coil resistance:
HST-18 mkIII 18″ Subwoofer – Stereo Integrity
assuming it can take enough power to hit xmax that is 113dB @ 20Hz
Piston Excursion calculator
With dual subwoofers you get 3db of extra efficiency, and 6 db of extra output. Dual subwoofers counteract room modes and thus provide flatter frequency response and uniform distribution of bass across different listening positions. The more subwoofers you add better the effect. 4 on each corner of the room is when you reach the point where adding more won't give you much. I can get dual 18 inch subwoofers for the same price as dual 12 inch subwoofers using B&C or LaVoce drivers.
I did not know the calculator, I used it and a forist thinks that in the box "diameter of the speaker" the generic value in inches should not be used but the equivalent to the sd of the diaphragm.
What is your opinion ?
See post 91 onwards, thanks
Eminence Delta Pro 18 A in prism sealed 150 liters
Technically the piston area should be the SD but this is only a rough calculator. After all SPL is lost through box vibration and xmax is based on geometry not the actual distortion performance of a finished speaker.
In terms of lower cost high xmax subs the Alpine drivers look interesting:
Data-Bass
They also have TS parameters which look like they could suit a 4th order bandpass which could be very potent.
In terms of lower cost high xmax subs the Alpine drivers look interesting:
Data-Bass
They also have TS parameters which look like they could suit a 4th order bandpass which could be very potent.
Try to use force cancelation
Hi
First of all when you compare Xmax you have to read the fine print.
The BMS 18N862 you mention has real Xmax of +/- 19 mm.
The La Voce is more like +/- 9,5 mm.
The BMS is test at Data-bass with a good result (no noise from the mechanics at large cone displacements)
But what I would suggest is to use 2 12" (or 15" or 4 12") speakers on each side of the sub to eliminate vibarations. Gives a much better transient response.
A good 12" would be BMS 12N630 wich you can get for 250 Euro at thomann.de.
2 of those 12" BMS are moving allmost as much air as 1 x 18" La Voce, but the enclosure will be much more silent with the two 12" mounted on opposite sides. Wich will improve the transient response. and the sound comming from every thing else than the units by a factor of 20.
best regards
uwe
Hi
First of all when you compare Xmax you have to read the fine print.
The BMS 18N862 you mention has real Xmax of +/- 19 mm.
The La Voce is more like +/- 9,5 mm.
The BMS is test at Data-bass with a good result (no noise from the mechanics at large cone displacements)
But what I would suggest is to use 2 12" (or 15" or 4 12") speakers on each side of the sub to eliminate vibarations. Gives a much better transient response.
A good 12" would be BMS 12N630 wich you can get for 250 Euro at thomann.de.
2 of those 12" BMS are moving allmost as much air as 1 x 18" La Voce, but the enclosure will be much more silent with the two 12" mounted on opposite sides. Wich will improve the transient response. and the sound comming from every thing else than the units by a factor of 20.
best regards
uwe
I found that 21DS115s are relatively cheap in our country. It behaves nicely in larger excursions like 16-17mm. That is about 5,5-5,7l of usable displacement volume per driver. More than 18IPAL. With high Qts, it also mostly retains the IPALs great efficiency. A driver hard to beat. Got second piece last week, and yes, I think I´m never going back with motor force ratios (cone area, mms and so on).
That is good price indeed, Especially for those who are okay with just one piece. Cheaper than Eminence in our country.
Yes, mathematical Xmax is this number. Yet the number doesn´t tell full story about speaker usability at, or past this cone excursion. That´s why B&C also puts Xvar parameter in their specs. And with this particular driver, with measured with 16,5mm, I can agree that it is usable at this excursion.
Yes, mathematical Xmax is this number. Yet the number doesn´t tell full story about speaker usability at, or past this cone excursion. That´s why B&C also puts Xvar parameter in their specs. And with this particular driver, with measured with 16,5mm, I can agree that it is usable at this excursion.
What is the Best Subwoofer for car?
Choosing a subwoofer for your car, especially the size is a little complex. Our best recommended size for your car is 12" because 15" becomes much large and occupies all the space in your car trunk.
When it comes to quality, competition-grade subwoofers are better than all others in construction and performance. Durable build quality of these subs make them last longer and produce a good sound with heart-thumping bass in your car.
Some competition subs produce so much bass to make your car rattle and they do not cause sound distortion if you choose the best one. You can run them at high or low volume.
Keeping into mind the size and quality, we have reviewed some best 12-inch competition subwoofers for car. Our top picks and buying guide will help you understand everything better.
Choosing a subwoofer for your car, especially the size is a little complex. Our best recommended size for your car is 12" because 15" becomes much large and occupies all the space in your car trunk.
When it comes to quality, competition-grade subwoofers are better than all others in construction and performance. Durable build quality of these subs make them last longer and produce a good sound with heart-thumping bass in your car.
Some competition subs produce so much bass to make your car rattle and they do not cause sound distortion if you choose the best one. You can run them at high or low volume.
Keeping into mind the size and quality, we have reviewed some best 12-inch competition subwoofers for car. Our top picks and buying guide will help you understand everything better.
I think you better use something like the Dayton UM18-22 than those pro woofers. They are not made to go that low and distort a lot when you tune them to low with dsp. The UM18 gets 109dB at 20Hz without dsp and has 22mm xmax and a high (23.76Tm) BL, and those factors are most important for this. It also got a the right QTS (0.53) and EBP (31) for a sealed box. The only disadvantage is that they ask a large enclosure (300L) altough your enclosure preference will also work rather well. You loose a db (or 2) at 20Hz but it still will be tuned very low and loud. And to get it flat with dsp, you'll need less radical eq settings.
And the driver is also cheaper than many of those mentioned here at 325 to 350$/€.
And the driver is also cheaper than many of those mentioned here at 325 to 350$/€.
Comparing UM-18-22 with Beyma 18LEX1600Nd
UM-18-22 in a 200 L box, Beyma in 107 L.
Both have a same Qtc of .767.
WinISD shows a few interesting facts:
1/ Beyma Fsc is 61.6 Hz, UM-18 is 28.9 Hz.
2/ Max SPL is the same for both drivers around 35 Hz.
3/ The max SPL is higher for Beyma as of 35 Hz upwards. At 100 Hz it is 10+ dB higher than UM-18. Subjectively "twice as loud".
4/ UM-18 max SPL below 20 Hz is about 4 dB higher than Beyma. In a sealed box max SPL is proportional to both area and Xmax, so the 4 dB seems logical as UM-18 has 22 mm Xmax vs Beyma 14.5 mm.
So at first sight a Beyma would have the advantages of a smaller box and more max SPL above 35 Hz (there where 99 % of the signal frequencies is found).
But the Beyma's maximum "rumble" output is still 4 dB less. In this box it also requires Linkwitz transform (or DSP) below 61.6 Hz leading to possible power compression at high volume and very much low frequency signal. The latter looks more theory. Modern EDM has much 30 Hz-ish bass, at 30 Hz Beyma's output is only 2 dB less than UM-18, so that doesn't look too dramatic.
Playing the devil's advocate, why would I want an UM-18, excluding $$ reasons for now? Are there other vipers in the grass (distortion and such) ?
UM-18-22 in a 200 L box, Beyma in 107 L.
Both have a same Qtc of .767.
WinISD shows a few interesting facts:
1/ Beyma Fsc is 61.6 Hz, UM-18 is 28.9 Hz.
2/ Max SPL is the same for both drivers around 35 Hz.
3/ The max SPL is higher for Beyma as of 35 Hz upwards. At 100 Hz it is 10+ dB higher than UM-18. Subjectively "twice as loud".
4/ UM-18 max SPL below 20 Hz is about 4 dB higher than Beyma. In a sealed box max SPL is proportional to both area and Xmax, so the 4 dB seems logical as UM-18 has 22 mm Xmax vs Beyma 14.5 mm.
So at first sight a Beyma would have the advantages of a smaller box and more max SPL above 35 Hz (there where 99 % of the signal frequencies is found).
But the Beyma's maximum "rumble" output is still 4 dB less. In this box it also requires Linkwitz transform (or DSP) below 61.6 Hz leading to possible power compression at high volume and very much low frequency signal. The latter looks more theory. Modern EDM has much 30 Hz-ish bass, at 30 Hz Beyma's output is only 2 dB less than UM-18, so that doesn't look too dramatic.
Playing the devil's advocate, why would I want an UM-18, excluding $$ reasons for now? Are there other vipers in the grass (distortion and such) ?
