Here's the story:
I bought 12 18'' folded horns from a respected factory-direct manufacturer who is often mentioned on these forums. I love them, amazing product. Sadly six of them were blown during a gig in May. I shipped them back for re-coning and was sent back six different drivers but supposedly same model drivers to replace them to increase the turn around on shipping for my next gig. When installing them I found they did not fit because these drivers actually had slightly different dimensions in height (not driver diameter) because of the shape of the magnet which prevented them from sitting flat onto the baffle.
When I contacted the manufacturer (now having to break contract on my gig because these drivers didn't fit) they said the solution was to send me "spacers". I've built many DIY rigs so some speaker construction didn't bother me too much but i bought this rig specifically to move into a more professional realm and away from DIY. I expressed some major concerns in this regard but was waved off and silly. When the "spacers" arrived, essentially they were just wood rings that filled in the recessed portion of the baffle, and pushing them to be sitting in line with the first interior panel and much closer to the front access panel (approx. 1/2'').
While installing them and seeing this it just didn't make any sense that this was a reasonable solution after paying thousands of dollars for high end gear. I was instructed to air seal the spacers with foam tape which only made the spacing issue worse and was very difficult to compress properly behind the driver, let alone reliable in the long term.
My questions are this -
1) When the manufacturer promised no changes in subwoofer performance, was that truthful statement? It seems obvious that changing the position of the driver would change the output considerably.
2) By pushing the driver outside the recessed baffle it is now only held in place by the screws with no side support on the outer edges of the driver normally provided by the wood cut out. Is it reasonable to assume this puts the drivers at risk of becoming loose or damaged due to increased stress on the screws which now have an excessively long distance between the driver and baffle? approx .75'' of distance between where the screw head connects to the driver and the threads in the baffle?
3) Do you consider this kind of solution an acceptable business practice for a high end sound company? My guess is the manufacturer was trying to save money on shipping as it is approx. $80 one way, per driver... seems to be putting my whole rig's performance at risk for some minimal savings on their end.
Thanks for any help.
I bought 12 18'' folded horns from a respected factory-direct manufacturer who is often mentioned on these forums. I love them, amazing product. Sadly six of them were blown during a gig in May. I shipped them back for re-coning and was sent back six different drivers but supposedly same model drivers to replace them to increase the turn around on shipping for my next gig. When installing them I found they did not fit because these drivers actually had slightly different dimensions in height (not driver diameter) because of the shape of the magnet which prevented them from sitting flat onto the baffle.
When I contacted the manufacturer (now having to break contract on my gig because these drivers didn't fit) they said the solution was to send me "spacers". I've built many DIY rigs so some speaker construction didn't bother me too much but i bought this rig specifically to move into a more professional realm and away from DIY. I expressed some major concerns in this regard but was waved off and silly. When the "spacers" arrived, essentially they were just wood rings that filled in the recessed portion of the baffle, and pushing them to be sitting in line with the first interior panel and much closer to the front access panel (approx. 1/2'').
While installing them and seeing this it just didn't make any sense that this was a reasonable solution after paying thousands of dollars for high end gear. I was instructed to air seal the spacers with foam tape which only made the spacing issue worse and was very difficult to compress properly behind the driver, let alone reliable in the long term.
My questions are this -
1) When the manufacturer promised no changes in subwoofer performance, was that truthful statement? It seems obvious that changing the position of the driver would change the output considerably.
2) By pushing the driver outside the recessed baffle it is now only held in place by the screws with no side support on the outer edges of the driver normally provided by the wood cut out. Is it reasonable to assume this puts the drivers at risk of becoming loose or damaged due to increased stress on the screws which now have an excessively long distance between the driver and baffle? approx .75'' of distance between where the screw head connects to the driver and the threads in the baffle?
3) Do you consider this kind of solution an acceptable business practice for a high end sound company? My guess is the manufacturer was trying to save money on shipping as it is approx. $80 one way, per driver... seems to be putting my whole rig's performance at risk for some minimal savings on their end.
Thanks for any help.
Are these front-loaded horns, rear-loaded horns, or tapped horns?
It's very possible that the use of a spacer will have little effect at bass frequencies. But that really depends on how susceptible the horn in question is to minor physical changes near the driver's location. It's likely much more susceptible to changes in the driver's parameters, like resonance frequency.
It's very possible that the use of a spacer will have little effect at bass frequencies. But that really depends on how susceptible the horn in question is to minor physical changes near the driver's location. It's likely much more susceptible to changes in the driver's parameters, like resonance frequency.
these are front loaded horns - the horn path is approx. 7.5 lf... not sure exactly.
what effects to the sound output would happen as a result of changing the resonance frequency? basically you're saying that the volume of the sealed chamber is now increased which means the ideal spec of the driver for this cab will have changed making this driver less optimal?
what effects to the sound output would happen as a result of changing the resonance frequency? basically you're saying that the volume of the sealed chamber is now increased which means the ideal spec of the driver for this cab will have changed making this driver less optimal?
The resonance frequency of the horn isn't going to change. If the driver's resonance frequency is different to the original however, that would suggest that the parameters for the replacement driver don't match the parameters of the original drivers, so the end results are likely to be different as well.
As for the increase in the volume of the sealed chamber, that's likely to be minimal and will have a minimal effect on the response of the horn, unless the chamber is very small to begin with. If the horns that are loaded with the replacement drivers don't sound audibly different (in a bad way) to the ones with the original drivers, I wouldn't worry about it.
It's not uncommon for manufacturers to change parts during a production run, for costs or availability reasons.
As you have both the old and new drivers, you could measure the T/S parameters to check if they are similar indeed. Or take horns with both drivers to a parking lot and measure the frequency response.
As you have both the old and new drivers, you could measure the T/S parameters to check if they are similar indeed. Or take horns with both drivers to a parking lot and measure the frequency response.
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