After long reasearch ,my candidates for sub woofer drivers in an 4 way active horn speaker are:BMS 18N1862 or Faital Pro 18XL1800 .
Which one is better and able to cover FR of:20-200Hz with clean and pure sound without distortion ?
Any suggestions for other better 18' drivers and appropriate enclosure sealed or any type of horns to cover the FR of:20-200Hz with clean and pure sound quality without any distortion would be more than welcome.
Which one is better and able to cover FR of:20-200Hz with clean and pure sound without distortion ?
Any suggestions for other better 18' drivers and appropriate enclosure sealed or any type of horns to cover the FR of:20-200Hz with clean and pure sound quality without any distortion would be more than welcome.
Clean and pure sound without distortion has as much to do with implementation as it does with product selection. There are any number of drivers that will perform well if a properly designed cabinet is built.
Even small drivers can deliver frequencies down below 20Hz in something like a tapped horn enclosure.
Perhaps you should tell us what the rest of your system comprises of so we can advise with more insight.
Even small drivers can deliver frequencies down below 20Hz in something like a tapped horn enclosure.
Perhaps you should tell us what the rest of your system comprises of so we can advise with more insight.
Thanks for your remarks.My dream is to build something close to Martion Orgon out ofwhich I've never heard anything better,however I think it's a corner horn and I only have one corner in a room of:6.6m*3.5m-wide(only one corner)*2.7m-Height .I have a friend who assists me with Horns ,but he doesn't know to make round horns.He can make square ones or perhaps conical ones.Needless to say,that what I aspire is as close as possible similar performance and sound quality-it doesn't have to be similar shape. For sub woofer,perhaps I'm an old fashioned,but I believe in big 18' drivers which I mentioned earlier,however I'm always open to new ideas especially if I could make it in a TH since my whole idea is to make it all horns ! My candidates for mid range drivers are one of the following 12' drivers: 18sound 12mb420,12nd520 ,B&C 12pe32,Fane sovereign pro 12-500 -I think it can integrate with the 18' sub woofer drivers which are fast with low MMS .
Naturally,I'm going to use active crossover with DSP and would dream of tube amplification ,but quite hopeless as to such a kit/set at a reasonable price. Compression drivers-my candidates are Radian 950PB,Heinz Renkus SSD3301(nos) , 18sound ND2060A,BMS 4591,B&C DCM50-all 2' exit since I want to use a tweeter and I understand it's better using 2' exit when using tweeter.If I'm wrong,I thought to use 18sound NSD1460 or NSD1480.Is there anything better-I'd love to hear about it. For tweeter I thought of SA8535 or BEYMA TPL150H or TPL200H or the super tweeter of FOSTEX T90A ,but I'm not sure the latter is as good as the "Ribbon" tweeters. I'd be grateful to get any notion,idea,advise,recommendations preferably based on experience/knowledge or any suitable horn/enclosure plans for this project
Naturally,I'm going to use active crossover with DSP and would dream of tube amplification ,but quite hopeless as to such a kit/set at a reasonable price. Compression drivers-my candidates are Radian 950PB,Heinz Renkus SSD3301(nos) , 18sound ND2060A,BMS 4591,B&C DCM50-all 2' exit since I want to use a tweeter and I understand it's better using 2' exit when using tweeter.If I'm wrong,I thought to use 18sound NSD1460 or NSD1480.Is there anything better-I'd love to hear about it. For tweeter I thought of SA8535 or BEYMA TPL150H or TPL200H or the super tweeter of FOSTEX T90A ,but I'm not sure the latter is as good as the "Ribbon" tweeters. I'd be grateful to get any notion,idea,advise,recommendations preferably based on experience/knowledge or any suitable horn/enclosure plans for this project
On my big systems with front loaded horns or direct radiator bass I typically run the 18’s up to 250Hz. I find the percussion and bass guitar sound better and it keeps the 15” mid bass drivers super clean and tight.
On systems that I have to cross the subs in the 60-120Hz range (tapped horns or subs displaced from the mains) I put the subsonic filter in the front end somewhere so it unwinds through both the sub and midbass. When crossing at 250Hz I can just put the filter in the sub out channel and be done.
My 2 bits worth.
Barry.
I’ve attached a photo of my system so you can see where I’m coming from. I understand you want to build spherical horns as per the Orgons, but apart from that my system is pretty close to what you’re looking to do.
It’s an active four way system. Ultra high, high and bass channels are horn loaded and driven by tube amplification, while the bass reflex sub bass channels use solid state amplification. My ultra high frequency channels employ the Stage Accompany SA8535 ribbons you mention, and I use 18” JBL subwoofers – also on your wish list.
This system took me the good part of ten years to build and I learned a lot on the way. Let me impart some advice.
1. Everything affects everything. But don’t get bogged down fixating on things, especially in a theoretical sense. Once you're actually listening to your speakers you often realise the aspect of the system you were deliberating isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Try and get a system up and running as soon as you can. THEN you can at least be listening to music and evaluating what needs to be addressed, improved or replaced with something better in the next round of changes. (Or it may serve to verify your fixation was warranted!)
2. While there are of course differences between the quality, price and sound of particular drivers, be aware that nobody is going to walk in and just by listening to your system, say “Oh these sound like TAD compression drivers.” Or "These sound like Altec 288’s.” Or these sound like FIR crossover filters. Not going to happen.
3. What makes more diference than driver selection is implementation. Crossover frequencies, slopes, integration with the room, room treatment, FIR or IIR filters etc. This will take time and patience, but THIS is the important stuff. You’ll need to measure, adjust, listen, repeat. Many times before you dial everything in. Getting this right can make even modest equipment sound AMAZING.
4. You may want to spend time reading through Romy the Cat’s thoughts on horn speakers via his forum. Yes, Romy is a complete lunatic and I don’t necessarily share ALL of his opinions, but he probably taught me more about the realities of a horn loudspeaker system than anybody. For instance, I believe as he does, that having all your drivers in a vertical array is a superior configuration than the triangulated layout of the Orgons.
Anyway, regardless of your component selection I can assure you that when you complete your horn build you will have a set of speakers that will deliver incredible dynamics, immediacy and realism that’s difficult to achieve without horn loading.
Feel free to PM me with specific questions you may have. I don't purport to being an expert, but I have built the kind of speakers you're planning to. (And they sound AMAZING.)
It’s an active four way system. Ultra high, high and bass channels are horn loaded and driven by tube amplification, while the bass reflex sub bass channels use solid state amplification. My ultra high frequency channels employ the Stage Accompany SA8535 ribbons you mention, and I use 18” JBL subwoofers – also on your wish list.
This system took me the good part of ten years to build and I learned a lot on the way. Let me impart some advice.
1. Everything affects everything. But don’t get bogged down fixating on things, especially in a theoretical sense. Once you're actually listening to your speakers you often realise the aspect of the system you were deliberating isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Try and get a system up and running as soon as you can. THEN you can at least be listening to music and evaluating what needs to be addressed, improved or replaced with something better in the next round of changes. (Or it may serve to verify your fixation was warranted!)
2. While there are of course differences between the quality, price and sound of particular drivers, be aware that nobody is going to walk in and just by listening to your system, say “Oh these sound like TAD compression drivers.” Or "These sound like Altec 288’s.” Or these sound like FIR crossover filters. Not going to happen.
3. What makes more diference than driver selection is implementation. Crossover frequencies, slopes, integration with the room, room treatment, FIR or IIR filters etc. This will take time and patience, but THIS is the important stuff. You’ll need to measure, adjust, listen, repeat. Many times before you dial everything in. Getting this right can make even modest equipment sound AMAZING.
4. You may want to spend time reading through Romy the Cat’s thoughts on horn speakers via his forum. Yes, Romy is a complete lunatic and I don’t necessarily share ALL of his opinions, but he probably taught me more about the realities of a horn loudspeaker system than anybody. For instance, I believe as he does, that having all your drivers in a vertical array is a superior configuration than the triangulated layout of the Orgons.
Anyway, regardless of your component selection I can assure you that when you complete your horn build you will have a set of speakers that will deliver incredible dynamics, immediacy and realism that’s difficult to achieve without horn loading.
Feel free to PM me with specific questions you may have. I don't purport to being an expert, but I have built the kind of speakers you're planning to. (And they sound AMAZING.)
Attachments
Romy likes to play a lunatic on the internet. He is actually anything but a lunatic.
He gets frustrated by people not willing to put in some real work - the kind of work you have performed with your system.
AS anyone who has seriously tried to make a good sounding system you find out whether you are able to enjoy the myriad of trials and measurements. You either enjoy it and love solving this puzzle or should leave it alone.
Making a good sounding speaker is not a pursuit for those with active social lives! We are strange and proud of it.
You have given good advice. The sad part is most people will continue to believe in magic drivers and capacitors - magic cabinet materials and think/hope that is all that is required. I know all too well since I took much too long a time going through that phase and know I can lapse into it much too easily.
He gets frustrated by people not willing to put in some real work - the kind of work you have performed with your system.
AS anyone who has seriously tried to make a good sounding system you find out whether you are able to enjoy the myriad of trials and measurements. You either enjoy it and love solving this puzzle or should leave it alone.
Making a good sounding speaker is not a pursuit for those with active social lives! We are strange and proud of it.
You have given good advice. The sad part is most people will continue to believe in magic drivers and capacitors - magic cabinet materials and think/hope that is all that is required. I know all too well since I took much too long a time going through that phase and know I can lapse into it much too easily.
Appreciate your comments rickmcinnis. It took me a long time to work out that contrary to what you read from all the 'experts', things are not black and white. It’s ALL grey. I recall spending many hours trying to get the time alignment nailed on my system, as I’d read that when you get it all locked in, the sound stage and imaging etc. just magically snaps into place! ... If only!
Interesting.
Can you put more details in why did you choose this ribbon location?
Thank you.
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I have a large room and wanted to try and reproduce as ‘real’ a sound as is practical. With the appropriate recording I was hoping the system could sound like the musicians were playing in the room. I know 99.9% of the audio world preaches that that having your drivers emanate from a single point source is paramount. I’m not convinced this is the only successful approach, especially if you’re trying to present a real sized image and soundstage. (I do however, concede that they should be aligned in the vertical plane.)
I looked to cinema systems for my inspiration where the horn setups stand quite tall, designed to throw a large image into the theatre to portray a certain realism. However, I was concerned that if I placed the ultra high frequency driver atop my high frequency driver, it might push the image up too high. So by placing it in between the high and midbass horns, it’s almost at ear level and prevents this happening. Given that my system is driven by a DSP front end, time alignment was made a whole lot easier. The drivers are configured to be close to physically time aligned, but delays were still required to bring things as close as possible to perfect alignment. The music delivery is very convincing with the right recording. Instruments are clearly defined within a believable soundstage and definitely don't sound like you're listening to a speaker.
Are your mid flares EV fibreglass units? They look suspiciously like a pair I had (I forget the model #) that I sold before I moved back down from the country into an apartment.
I have 4way horn set from >135hz.
Well bass is 862 and its kind of horn too.
https://www.audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-precision-devices-pd-185n02-woofer
This driver interests me, if i had no 862 i would go with this
Well bass is 862 and its kind of horn too.
https://www.audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-precision-devices-pd-185n02-woofer
This driver interests me, if i had no 862 i would go with this
Logical. Your midbass horns looks very interested also. Which woofers do you use? Are you willing to share the plan? They looks VERY correect from lot's of points.
Thank you.
I love these mid bass horns. The plans for them (designed by Erik Forker) are easily obtainable from his website. This page outlines the design: Conical Midbass Fronthorns – Volvotreter Homepage
And you can download the plans here:
https://volvotreter.de/downloads/Conical_77Hz_Midbass_1.0.pdf
These horns have been designed for Electro Voice EVM 15L or EVM 15B drivers.
And you can download the plans here:
https://volvotreter.de/downloads/Conical_77Hz_Midbass_1.0.pdf
These horns have been designed for Electro Voice EVM 15L or EVM 15B drivers.
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