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Simple bass unit using the Dayton PA310
Simple bass unit using the Dayton PA310
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Old 29th October 2017, 11:53 PM   #11
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Originally Posted by PB2 View Post
I'd go for a mid 30s tuning.
I have to wonder how much you'd save in box size with passive radiator(s) and
if it would be better sounding eliminating the upper band response issues.
I'm thinking a pair of 12" or 15" PRs.
Mid 30's would be way too low for this driver. It does not like going that low at all, and the passband will dip too much. 40 Hz is about as low as I'd aim for. Concerning the response issues at higher frequencies, for light PA bass bin duty, it won't be carrying much above 100 Hz anyway, so all the upper band response issues will be doing is amplifying any distortion generated by the system.

At some point I'm going to find myself dabbling with PRs, but it will likely be one of those compliance-assisted designs, rather than a basic PR alignment. I've always wanted to try one of those. I need to find a source for driver cones and surrounds though. Not something that Parts Express really keeps in supply...
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Old 30th October 2017, 12:43 AM   #12
Fidstang is offline Fidstang  United States
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Preliminary results look promising - looks like 6-12dB of suppression around 400 Hz by adding a stub to the vent that's a few inches long, and lightly stuffed. Dealing with that 200 Hz peak is proving to be more difficult though.
Do you plan on running DSP with your amp? What frequency will you be low passing at? This sim looked good.
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Old 30th October 2017, 12:58 AM   #13
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Do you plan on running DSP with your amp? What frequency will you be low passing at? This sim looked good.
Primarily this build is likely going to be used a "reference" build to compare the others to in terms of response and output. I already have the driver on hand (rescued from my POC3 TH when I upgraded it) and I have spawn-of-the-devil MDF on hand which I'm certainly not going to use for any serious work. If I was going to use this build as a bass bin for a mini PA, I'd low-pass around 120 Hz or so, based on the capabilities of the speakers I'm using for the tops. The form-factor (14" wide) should make it easy enough to carry, by just placing one embedded handle at the top.

My mobile mini-PA system gets its power from the Alpine PDX amps in my car - they use plugs for connecting the speakers, so it only takes a few minutes to set things up. For other uses I've got two iNuke 3000 DSP amps I can use (and yes, I've used their DSP features to prevent over-excursion and the like), but they're in need of repair at the moment. Which reminds me - I need to get off my lazy a$$ and ship them for repair....
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Old 30th October 2017, 01:15 AM   #14
Fidstang is offline Fidstang  United States
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Primarily this build is likely going to be used a "reference" build to compare the others to in terms of response and output. I already have the driver on hand (rescued from my POC3 TH when I upgraded it) and I have spawn-of-the-devil MDF on hand which I'm certainly not going to use for any serious work. If I was going to use this build as a bass bin for a mini PA, I'd low-pass around 120 Hz or so, based on the capabilities of the speakers I'm using for the tops. The form-factor (14" wide) should make it easy enough to carry, by just placing one embedded handle at the top.

My mobile mini-PA system gets its power from the Alpine PDX amps in my car - they use plugs for connecting the speakers, so it only takes a few minutes to set things up. For other uses I've got two iNuke 3000 DSP amps I can use (and yes, I've used their DSP features to prevent over-excursion and the like), but they're in need of repair at the moment. Which reminds me - I need to get off my lazy a$$ and ship them for repair....
I was wondering if you would be using DSP, because the peak you had in your sim at 200Hz shouldn't be too bad to reduce enough to not effect the lowpass crossover.

You say the 3000s need repair, may I ask what happened? I have a 1000dsp and 3000dsp that I use for my two-ways. Just wondering if it is something I should watch for.
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Old 30th October 2017, 02:04 AM   #15
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Mid 30's would be way too low for this driver. It does not like going that low at all, and the passband will dip too much. 40 Hz is about as low as I'd aim for. Concerning the response issues at higher frequencies, for light PA bass bin duty, it won't be carrying much above 100 Hz anyway, so all the upper band response issues will be doing is amplifying any distortion generated by the system.

At some point I'm going to find myself dabbling with PRs, but it will likely be one of those compliance-assisted designs, rather than a basic PR alignment. I've always wanted to try one of those. I need to find a source for driver cones and surrounds though. Not something that Parts Express really keeps in supply...
I remember your interest in those tricky PR designs on the Bass List - that was a long time ago.
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Old 30th October 2017, 02:39 AM   #16
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Originally Posted by Fidstang View Post
You say the 3000s need repair, may I ask what happened? I have a 1000dsp and 3000dsp that I use for my two-ways. Just wondering if it is something I should watch for.
I'm not sure. They simply stopped working properly. I wasn't even playing them anywhere near peak level. For the first one, the left channel failed and the amp fails to get past POST. For the other, it will play for awhile and then descend into distortion, suggesting a problem with its power supply. It has kind of turned me off of the iNuke series, though users have reported no problems with their iNuke amps.
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Old 30th October 2017, 03:20 AM   #17
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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At some point I'm going to find myself dabbling with PRs, but it will likely be one of those compliance-assisted designs, rather than a basic PR alignment. I've always wanted to try one of those. I need to find a source for driver cones and surrounds though. Not something that Parts Express really keeps in supply...
Speaker Passive Radiator Replacement Kit, 12" Speakers, PASK-12
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Old 30th October 2017, 10:36 PM   #18
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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That there defines why I find it so hard to start on a project like this. Once the cost of the PRs is included in the design work, I tend to drop the design in favour of others that can produce similar performance at lower cost.
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Old 7th November 2017, 08:36 PM   #19
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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They do seem over priced, could just buy repacement foam on ebay and use a masonite
disc for the "cone". I'm convinced that there is a cost effective way to do a high output PR.

This is a better price especially if they do combined shipping, they also have spiders:
12" Subwoofer Speaker Cone CN1201 | eBay

Last edited by PB2; 7th November 2017 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:43 AM   #20
USRFobiwan is offline USRFobiwan
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Simple bass unit using the Dayton PA310
Well i don't think passives are expensive...
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