So this is the 18" C2A (or perhaps more accurately the TC2A-118)?
I'm still trying to figure out the workings of this sub, as I understand it it is built around two main QW resonators (or three due to the split path) one short with large cross section area exited by the rear of the driver, and the two on either side and they all sum at the aperture, is this correct?
I'm still trying to figure out the workings of this sub, as I understand it it is built around two main QW resonators (or three due to the split path) one short with large cross section area exited by the rear of the driver, and the two on either side and they all sum at the aperture, is this correct?
Paraflex Type C-2 series, C-2D and C2E are all split-path symmetrical layouts ..
Martinsson,
Correct it is a Paraflex Type C-2A (abbreviated Paraflex TC2A) ...
Yes, it's operating principle is Compound Loading using quarter wave resonances ....The Compound QW Loading with the ends of the resonators merging very near a shared mouth is a common feature of all the Paraflex designs .... However with some of these Paraflex designs such as the "C" series we have given the High-Tuned resonator and the mouth a large Cross Sectional area, and since the long (low tuned) path utilizes the rest of the cabinet as a large expansion & shared volume with shared mouth it means that we could call this a sort of Compound Horn design .....
As you correctly pointed out the high-tuned resonator is short and fat (where the rear of the cone, basket and driver's motor are located), and is excited by the rear of the driver's cone but as mentioned above this section is also utilized as a shared volume by the low-tuned QW resonators, adding to their performance ........ In these Paraflex designs the high-tuned resonator can be a cavity resonator or a QW resonator or any transitional degree between the two (easily optimized in Hornresp, and easy to see how the geometry changes the results) ..........
These split-path symmetrical models of course have the lower tuned resonator path split into two identical paths, each with half of the Cross Sectional Area that we would normally give the single path ...... This split-path symmetrical approach is used in the Paraflex Type C-2A (sub), C-2D (kickbins) and C-2E (sub) .. .
Here is another Paraflex C-2A subwoofer link , these are built by Angel G Romero in the Dominican Republic ....... The other C-2A subs were built by Dave Pyro Lovell here in Arizona .. ... Jason Geban in New York is also working on a set of them as of the last few days ..
USRF Obiwan (Plippie Plop on FB) was the first to build the 35hz tuned Classic Type "C" Paraflex (non-split path version) and it measured and tested extraordinarily well .... Has a significant performance advantage over the XOC1 TH even though it has the same outer dimensions , same tuning, same location , same settings and was using the same driver .....The gain over the XOC1 TH is to such a degree that it was audible, so needless to say it was also very measurable with the most noticeable advantage being mainly in the range which gives a subwoofer it's subjective slam, presence and impact ...... We can post the measured comparison graph if someone would like to see it .. .
Some of the simple plans (below) which our 3D artists will create their professional drawings from :
The last two drawings were provided by our talented friend Altaph Mohammed in Trinidad ..
I am not on DIYaudio lately because i haven't yet been able to work out the image hosting domain issue that has made much of the content in this discussion unavailable ..... So i have been mainly focused on the High-Order QW group on Facebook, and all of our recent communal developing efforts are mainly being carried out there ... There are many updates ..Obi posted about some.. ... I have been thinking about starting a fresh discussion here on DIYaudio where all of the current work can be shared ....
Martinsson,
Correct it is a Paraflex Type C-2A (abbreviated Paraflex TC2A) ...
Yes, it's operating principle is Compound Loading using quarter wave resonances ....The Compound QW Loading with the ends of the resonators merging very near a shared mouth is a common feature of all the Paraflex designs .... However with some of these Paraflex designs such as the "C" series we have given the High-Tuned resonator and the mouth a large Cross Sectional area, and since the long (low tuned) path utilizes the rest of the cabinet as a large expansion & shared volume with shared mouth it means that we could call this a sort of Compound Horn design .....
As you correctly pointed out the high-tuned resonator is short and fat (where the rear of the cone, basket and driver's motor are located), and is excited by the rear of the driver's cone but as mentioned above this section is also utilized as a shared volume by the low-tuned QW resonators, adding to their performance ........ In these Paraflex designs the high-tuned resonator can be a cavity resonator or a QW resonator or any transitional degree between the two (easily optimized in Hornresp, and easy to see how the geometry changes the results) ..........
These split-path symmetrical models of course have the lower tuned resonator path split into two identical paths, each with half of the Cross Sectional Area that we would normally give the single path ...... This split-path symmetrical approach is used in the Paraflex Type C-2A (sub), C-2D (kickbins) and C-2E (sub) .. .
Here is another Paraflex C-2A subwoofer link , these are built by Angel G Romero in the Dominican Republic ....... The other C-2A subs were built by Dave Pyro Lovell here in Arizona .. ... Jason Geban in New York is also working on a set of them as of the last few days ..
USRF Obiwan (Plippie Plop on FB) was the first to build the 35hz tuned Classic Type "C" Paraflex (non-split path version) and it measured and tested extraordinarily well .... Has a significant performance advantage over the XOC1 TH even though it has the same outer dimensions , same tuning, same location , same settings and was using the same driver .....The gain over the XOC1 TH is to such a degree that it was audible, so needless to say it was also very measurable with the most noticeable advantage being mainly in the range which gives a subwoofer it's subjective slam, presence and impact ...... We can post the measured comparison graph if someone would like to see it .. .
Some of the simple plans (below) which our 3D artists will create their professional drawings from :
The last two drawings were provided by our talented friend Altaph Mohammed in Trinidad ..
I am not on DIYaudio lately because i haven't yet been able to work out the image hosting domain issue that has made much of the content in this discussion unavailable ..... So i have been mainly focused on the High-Order QW group on Facebook, and all of our recent communal developing efforts are mainly being carried out there ... There are many updates ..Obi posted about some.. ... I have been thinking about starting a fresh discussion here on DIYaudio where all of the current work can be shared ....
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If you are using a Windows OS, then you can easily screen print to Paint and save as a .jpg file to your My Documents folder or Desktop. Upload the files as attachments to diyaudio. I just attached a screen shot of my phone. It's that easy. I don't see why anyone needs a 3rd party to post pics.
Attachments
@Matthew, thank you for the elaboration on the designs, my interest in the C2A model stemmed from my curiosity of how well the paraflex designs scale.
Way back when we developed the THAM it started with one design, in that case the THAM15 back in 2009, we then saw the possibility of scaling the the folding to other driver sizes and some time later we had a complete family spanning from 10" all the way up to 18".
That same approach was with us from the beginning when it comes to the later ROAR series designs, the same folding could be scaled in a similar fashion and so we developed them in parallel.
Could the same be applied in the case of the paraflex designs? I cant really see why not, for example, add an extra step in the folding of the C2D 74Hz tuned kick bin and you may end up with a type C2A for 15", slightly smaller, slightly higher tuned?
Way back when we developed the THAM it started with one design, in that case the THAM15 back in 2009, we then saw the possibility of scaling the the folding to other driver sizes and some time later we had a complete family spanning from 10" all the way up to 18".
That same approach was with us from the beginning when it comes to the later ROAR series designs, the same folding could be scaled in a similar fashion and so we developed them in parallel.
Could the same be applied in the case of the paraflex designs? I cant really see why not, for example, add an extra step in the folding of the C2D 74Hz tuned kick bin and you may end up with a type C2A for 15", slightly smaller, slightly higher tuned?
MMJ - if you're reading - your mailbox is full
hey MMJ - here's what I've tried to send a couple of times. I'll probably miss out on getting a K built for now as picked a horn toy instead.
Hi Matthew - I tried to reply a few days ago but your inbox was full.
Maybe a small K-flex which could share either Kappa 12a - or my JBL M151. Do you think a traditional K-aperture will work well? It does on the little Acoustic 115BK which has about 1 cubic foot front chamber. I've not heard from my builder and since wasn't sure on the K-flex, told him to build a simple folded horn for the mean time. How is port area adjusted on your kluge model? What segments comprise the front chamber?
BEST !!!
Freddy
ps here's those sims with M151 stuffed in the little K-flex
https://i.imgur.com/9mzt4Qi.png
hey MMJ - here's what I've tried to send a couple of times. I'll probably miss out on getting a K built for now as picked a horn toy instead.
Hi Matthew - I tried to reply a few days ago but your inbox was full.
Maybe a small K-flex which could share either Kappa 12a - or my JBL M151. Do you think a traditional K-aperture will work well? It does on the little Acoustic 115BK which has about 1 cubic foot front chamber. I've not heard from my builder and since wasn't sure on the K-flex, told him to build a simple folded horn for the mean time. How is port area adjusted on your kluge model? What segments comprise the front chamber?
BEST !!!
Freddy
ps here's those sims with M151 stuffed in the little K-flex
https://i.imgur.com/9mzt4Qi.png
Sorry about that Freddi , i will free up some inbox space
...
I need to get over to the old ML-Transflex discussion to leave a post .....
Been a lot going on lately with the Compound Horn & Compound loaded QW cabinet developing , keeping us busy .....
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Thank You
BP1Fanatic , thank you so much for providing this...
So cool that you saved these and put them together this way
BP1Fanatic , thank you so much for providing this...
So cool that you saved these and put them together this way
More examples of Super Planar and Paraflex scaling.
No problem, you are welcome Martinsson
As Obiwan said they do scale well .... His Super Planar 2x6" top that he gave as an example looks incredibly cool, hopefully he will post some good photos of it here ... I have heard a recording of it ... Great sounding little 2-way Compound Horn loaded trap top ..
We have recently been working on a 2x8" or 4x8" Compound Horn trapezoidal top which can be loaded with Eminence Beta 8a drivers .. Plans will soon be made public..
As far as scaling the Paraflex Type C-2A subwoofer (for a 15" driver) it can be done the way you described or it can be as simple as sticking with the C-2A 1x18" layout and reducing the 24" dimension down to 17 inches or 18 inches (outer), which works
..
UsrfObiwan has scaled and built the C-2E for a 15" driver ... Also turned out to be an excellent cabinet ... He loaded it with a heavy duty 15" driver from Oberton and he liked the results so much that he is planning to build several more to be used as a group at events in the Netherlands..
Another fellow named Bradley Katz built a pair of Paraflex Type C-2E 1x15" and loaded them with some of the higher end Faital Pro 15s and they are performing well for him (also being used to reproduce dance music at events with live DJs ) ... He is very happy with them.. . He also shared some videos of them in action (i think i can link them over to here) .. .
The original C-2A Paraflex plans were intended for a single 18" driver but can easily be adapted to four 10" drivers, four 12" drivers, two 12" drivers or even a single 12" driver but at that point becomes a Paraflex Type "F" . ...
No problem, you are welcome Martinsson
As Obiwan said they do scale well .... His Super Planar 2x6" top that he gave as an example looks incredibly cool, hopefully he will post some good photos of it here ... I have heard a recording of it ... Great sounding little 2-way Compound Horn loaded trap top ..
We have recently been working on a 2x8" or 4x8" Compound Horn trapezoidal top which can be loaded with Eminence Beta 8a drivers .. Plans will soon be made public..
As far as scaling the Paraflex Type C-2A subwoofer (for a 15" driver) it can be done the way you described or it can be as simple as sticking with the C-2A 1x18" layout and reducing the 24" dimension down to 17 inches or 18 inches (outer), which works
.. UsrfObiwan has scaled and built the C-2E for a 15" driver ... Also turned out to be an excellent cabinet ... He loaded it with a heavy duty 15" driver from Oberton and he liked the results so much that he is planning to build several more to be used as a group at events in the Netherlands..
Another fellow named Bradley Katz built a pair of Paraflex Type C-2E 1x15" and loaded them with some of the higher end Faital Pro 15s and they are performing well for him (also being used to reproduce dance music at events with live DJs ) ... He is very happy with them.. . He also shared some videos of them in action (i think i can link them over to here) .. .
The original C-2A Paraflex plans were intended for a single 18" driver but can easily be adapted to four 10" drivers, four 12" drivers, two 12" drivers or even a single 12" driver but at that point becomes a Paraflex Type "F" . ...
BP1Fan, the convenience of hosting the photos on DIYaudio is attractive for sure but there are some benefits to 3rd party hosting such as being able to share these posts (including photos) with folks who don't have DIYaudio accounts (I still want them to see the images) ..... 3rd party hosting also allows the images to show up in search engines which i prefer in most cases, and for those photos that i don't want to appear in search engine results i always have the option to host them on DIYaudio .... It is good to have options
The Pro Audio lineup.. Super Planar and Paraflex cabinets.
Here (below) is our current DIY PA lineup including the Super Planar and Paraflex series cabinets ... Rendered in gorgeous 3D by our talented artist friend in Australia, his name is Ty Cention (of Kaironex).... His rates are reasonable, and he is available to create 3D of other designs, so if you need that service just contact him on Facebook (or on here if he gets an account on DIYaudio ... He might sign up once he sees that i am posting his work in these forums )...
Here (below) is our current DIY PA lineup including the Super Planar and Paraflex series cabinets ... Rendered in gorgeous 3D by our talented artist friend in Australia, his name is Ty Cention (of Kaironex).... His rates are reasonable, and he is available to create 3D of other designs, so if you need that service just contact him on Facebook (or on here if he gets an account on DIYaudio ... He might sign up once he sees that i am posting his work in these forums
)...
(or on here if he gets an account on DIYaudio ... He might sign up once he sees that i am posting his work in these forums
Thank you for the shoutout!
BP1Fanatic , thank you so much for providing this...
So cool that you saved these and put them together this way
No problem guy! All I did was save freddi's pic to my phone and attached it to my post.
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those 2x8 and 4x8 "kick top" cabinets look like they could be pretty nice for home systems. A 2X10 should be good and decent height to hold MF/HF horn. Is Delta 10a suitable for a 2x10 kick top? What do sims of the eight inch cabinets look like ? Do they play low enough to hit a drumkit's mounted toms?
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Yes , A pair of Delta 10a drivers should be great in such a cabinet (scaled up) .
Freddi ,
According to sims the Beta 8a loaded 2x8" and 4x8" should be good down to around the 80hz to 100hz range (depending on how we tune them) ...... A 2x10" can also be made to work with the same layout if scaled up for 10s ... In fact the Delta 10a would be one of the recommended drivers ..
Freddi ,
According to sims the Beta 8a loaded 2x8" and 4x8" should be good down to around the 80hz to 100hz range (depending on how we tune them) ...... A 2x10" can also be made to work with the same layout if scaled up for 10s ... In fact the Delta 10a would be one of the recommended drivers
..
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hey Matthew - that looks like a good and capable home system - which 6" are those? - - is there a compression driver on a (commercial array) waveguide driving the upper horn's throat? If one has membership with Facebook, can info be found in the "files" section at the illustrious High Order Quarter Wave Society?
with regards to the Karlflex with K-aperture and stub - I think its worth a shot as long as the speaker is rather "bright" in the first place so there can be tonal balance and not sound like either in a cave or under-water
with regards to the Karlflex with K-aperture and stub - I think its worth a shot as long as the speaker is rather "bright" in the first place so there can be tonal balance and not sound like either in a cave or under-water
Hi Freddi
I believe 18sound 6pr112 and b&c de250 was used on the 2x6
Yes indeed most plans myseld and others are up there. Sketchup files and cutsheet photos in the comments.
Plans for the 4x8 and 2x8 paraflex are not public currently. The 4x8 will need phase plug testing to find something optimal.
The 2x8 will be able to use the same semi circle that was found optimal on the 2x12.
I won't bw home until the 2nd of july in which i will get somw plans posted for a 2x10 for yourself and the community.
Best regards,
Ty
I believe 18sound 6pr112 and b&c de250 was used on the 2x6
Yes indeed most plans myseld and others are up there. Sketchup files and cutsheet photos in the comments.
Plans for the 4x8 and 2x8 paraflex are not public currently. The 4x8 will need phase plug testing to find something optimal.
The 2x8 will be able to use the same semi circle that was found optimal on the 2x12.
I won't bw home until the 2nd of july in which i will get somw plans posted for a 2x10 for yourself and the community.
Best regards,
Ty