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Simulation of sub with corner placement?
Simulation of sub with corner placement?
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Old 24th September 2015, 07:26 PM   #1
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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Default Simulation of sub with corner placement?

Any ideas on simulation software to use to calculate response from a sub placed in a corner? I'm looking at designing a dual 10" closed box design like the Steinway Lyngdorf S-210. I have several woofers identified, but I would like to understand what the interaction with room looks like before settling on a particular model.
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Old 24th September 2015, 08:43 PM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

For hifi corner placement is bad, for AV not so much.

You'd be better off with two boxes with an amp in one. Place
~ 1/3 along the back wall and ~ 1/3 along opposite side wall.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 24th September 2015, 10:06 PM   #3
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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I have heard the Steinway lyngdorf system with two corner woofers and a set of small main speakers, and I was blown away by the fact that the bass was super tight and I could swear that it was coming from the small main speakers (note a DSP was used for xover, frequency flattening and time alignment of bass and main speakers).

https://steinwaylyngdorf.com/technol...oundary-woofer

While marketing material like this needs to be taken with a large dose of salt, there is something intuitively right about getting direct and first reflections aligned, coupled with the capability to level out the room nodes in the DSP.

Now back to the question, do you know of any loudspeaker box simulation packages that can simulate the frequency from box dimensions and the room effects you would get from box placement?
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Old 24th September 2015, 10:17 PM   #4
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

If you use a DSP to do all those things, simulation doesn't really matter.

No box simulation package takes into account room dimensions and placement.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 24th September 2015, 11:31 PM   #5
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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While DSP can help you, it is generally speaking a very good idea to have the best possible starting point before you fire up your EQ

What I would like to explore is the following: I'm going for a relatively small closed box, 40-50l, two (high BxL) 10" woofer mounted in opposing fashion (one on each side of the box) to cancel vibration.

I could go with a stiff heavy cone like the Seas L26 Roy (mms=107g/fs=22Hz/Qts=0.31/Vas=87l/BxL=12) and get relatively deep bass, or with a lighter cone TIW250XS (mms=49g/fs=33Hz/Qts=0.33/Vas=66l/BxL=13)

The trade-off will thus be low fs or low mms. I conjecture that low fs is less important with corner placement due to room gain, but getting a highish xover point in 200-300 range that integrates well with main speakers would work best with a low mms cone and a damped box alignment (low box Q).
Would have been nice to explore in simulation that low range output would be adequate from low mms driver.
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Old 26th September 2015, 02:38 PM   #6
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Hi All,

FYI:

b
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2xSTX_W.27.500.8.FCX-Bipole.JPG (895.5 KB, 131 views)
File Type: jpg TIW-250XS-8.JPG (727.3 KB, 132 views)
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Old 26th September 2015, 06:31 PM   #7
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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Impressive a lot of info - I'm surprised by the high f3 for seas in closed box, are you sure that the T/S Paramus are right (maybe fs is off?) ?
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Old 26th September 2015, 06:37 PM   #8
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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Any guesses as to who produces this woofer (what OEM)

https://steinwaylyngdorf.com/images/...Woofer_710.jpg

Sorry my iPad browser crashes every time I use the inser hyperlink feature in editor
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Old 26th September 2015, 07:26 PM   #9
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Room gain occurs for all placements, corner placement
exacerbates the room modes, and is generally only
good for maximising the limited output of an AV sub.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 26th September 2015, 07:36 PM   #10
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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A premise for making corner placement work is dsp and time delay of main speakers, when dialed in, it is hands down the most impressive stereo bass I have experienced.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but in this rare case I do not agree with you sreten
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