Hi I have been lurking here for months doing hours of homework and now it is time to ask for some help from the experts. I have attempted to teach myself Sketchup and Hornresp and have read any related thread I could find. Here is what I am trying to do:
Goal:
A high SPL base section for a wakeboard boat. SPL is the goal but I don’t want something that sounds terrible. No one-note-wonders.
Mids and highs are extremely loud on the boat. It has been impossible in the past for the base section to keep up. More SPL is better
Amplification:
1000W RMS via Alpine PDX 1.000 Class D mono 12V amp. This amp will put 1000W RMS into either a 4ohm or 2ohm load (same watts for both). Includes a built-in LP filter adjustable from 50Hz – 200Hz and a built-in HP filter selectable at 15Hz or 30Hz
Frequency Response
My homework has suggested that it is futile to try to go too low, but I am not sure how low is too low. I want the base to be strong and impressive. The mids and highs are extremely loud am guessing that the most energy I can put into the 50-200Hz band the better. Advice here is appreciated.
Is this considered a sub? I don’t really care what we call it. I want an impressive base section that can keep up with the rest of the system.
Music
On the boat the music selection is often dominated by top 40, country, Hip-hop, rap and some dub-step(ish) music.
Driver Selection
Open season! I will be purchasing new drivers for this project so I am open to suggestions here. My initial thought is to use as many of the biggest pro-audio subs with as much efficiency as possible. I want to keep the total impedance of the box at either 4 ohms or 2 ohms to get the most out of my amp. My budget is pretty flexible. I don’t want to throw money away but I am willing to pay for quality.
Space
Here is the catch and the part I need the most help with. I have very limited space. I have attached some sketchup drawings of the space I have available. There are 3 shapes that I will be able to fit into the boat with minimal modifications of the boat. I would like to start here. If I can’t achieve my goals I could go with bigger options but I would have to get out a saw and start hacking fiberglass pieces apart so I would really prefer not to. The options below are about 90 – 110 liters internal volume (3.2 – 3.9 ft3).
Alignment
Sealed and base reflex are out. I need the driver(s) to be housed inside the box with only a port firing into the boat cabin. So any alignment that achieves this is fair game. I have been playing with 4th order and 6th order bandpass as well as tapped horns. The box will live underneath a fiberglass bench seat that is vented into the cabin with a port that can’t exceed the maximum size of 10 inches high by 12.5 inches wide. Hopefully smaller.
Request
Can someone help me squeeze the most base possible out of the boxes I have shown below given the above requirements?
Goal:
A high SPL base section for a wakeboard boat. SPL is the goal but I don’t want something that sounds terrible. No one-note-wonders.
Mids and highs are extremely loud on the boat. It has been impossible in the past for the base section to keep up. More SPL is better
Amplification:
1000W RMS via Alpine PDX 1.000 Class D mono 12V amp. This amp will put 1000W RMS into either a 4ohm or 2ohm load (same watts for both). Includes a built-in LP filter adjustable from 50Hz – 200Hz and a built-in HP filter selectable at 15Hz or 30Hz
Frequency Response
My homework has suggested that it is futile to try to go too low, but I am not sure how low is too low. I want the base to be strong and impressive. The mids and highs are extremely loud am guessing that the most energy I can put into the 50-200Hz band the better. Advice here is appreciated.
Is this considered a sub? I don’t really care what we call it. I want an impressive base section that can keep up with the rest of the system.
Music
On the boat the music selection is often dominated by top 40, country, Hip-hop, rap and some dub-step(ish) music.
Driver Selection
Open season! I will be purchasing new drivers for this project so I am open to suggestions here. My initial thought is to use as many of the biggest pro-audio subs with as much efficiency as possible. I want to keep the total impedance of the box at either 4 ohms or 2 ohms to get the most out of my amp. My budget is pretty flexible. I don’t want to throw money away but I am willing to pay for quality.
Space
Here is the catch and the part I need the most help with. I have very limited space. I have attached some sketchup drawings of the space I have available. There are 3 shapes that I will be able to fit into the boat with minimal modifications of the boat. I would like to start here. If I can’t achieve my goals I could go with bigger options but I would have to get out a saw and start hacking fiberglass pieces apart so I would really prefer not to. The options below are about 90 – 110 liters internal volume (3.2 – 3.9 ft3).
Alignment
Sealed and base reflex are out. I need the driver(s) to be housed inside the box with only a port firing into the boat cabin. So any alignment that achieves this is fair game. I have been playing with 4th order and 6th order bandpass as well as tapped horns. The box will live underneath a fiberglass bench seat that is vented into the cabin with a port that can’t exceed the maximum size of 10 inches high by 12.5 inches wide. Hopefully smaller.
Request
Can someone help me squeeze the most base possible out of the boxes I have shown below given the above requirements?
Attachments
Those boxes are different are you saying pick one and go with it?
Also the width is 13" so you'll need a 12" woofer or to position it differently
somehow? Or is a larger woofer not possible?
You could do half of the 7 cu ft design that had four 12" drivers that I did for the
other boat thread. 3.5 cu ft fits into your design, I'd use two of the TC Sounds
Epic 12s for better power handling and more output per driver. The woofers will
be coasting along with your 1000W. If it is not loud enough add a second amp.
Aim the woofers up into the big slot and perhaps use part of the top slot as the
vent. It can be shoe horned into one of those boxes I think.
Also the width is 13" so you'll need a 12" woofer or to position it differently
somehow? Or is a larger woofer not possible?
You could do half of the 7 cu ft design that had four 12" drivers that I did for the
other boat thread. 3.5 cu ft fits into your design, I'd use two of the TC Sounds
Epic 12s for better power handling and more output per driver. The woofers will
be coasting along with your 1000W. If it is not loud enough add a second amp.
Aim the woofers up into the big slot and perhaps use part of the top slot as the
vent. It can be shoe horned into one of those boxes I think.
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Not sure why you keep recommending Epic 12s when they are not available for sale and probably won't be any time in the near future. Maybe never. It's not a stable company. They have good products but they really suck at business.
These people have projects they want to work on now, and you keep recommending only drivers that are not available.
These people have projects they want to work on now, and you keep recommending only drivers that are not available.
You are ridiculous and childish, I only recommend drivers that are not available? The Infinity is so your histrionic blanket statement is blatantly wrong. Let them call and see if the Epic 12 will be available or not. We already heard that you don't like the company, I like the product a lot, that is why I suggest it. Now, let people read and come to their own conclusions. You are on ignore.
The Infinity will work in this application as a backup.
Why dont' you suggest something instead of being the critic?
The Infinity will work in this application as a backup.
Why dont' you suggest something instead of being the critic?
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Epic 12 is a terrible suggestion anyways.... he said he's happy with 50hz up (a wise decision when going for small and loud). Maybe tune as low as 40 considering your highest hipass is 30hz
2x faital pro 1030hp 12, ppsl, port firing through the slot plenum, tune around 45 hz ish. Xrk has a good thread going with some design info on these types of boxes
2x faital pro 1030hp 12, ppsl, port firing through the slot plenum, tune around 45 hz ish. Xrk has a good thread going with some design info on these types of boxes
You didn't mention Infinity anywhere in your recommendation and only mentioned "the other boat thread" in passing with no link.
This is the 3rd time in two days that you've recommended these drivers and the fourth time you've mentioned your ported design, like it's a one size fits all for everyone regardless of whether it fits their stated goals or not.
If OP really wants a 50 hz tuning pro drivers are probably the best option, although I personally would advise against a 50 hz tuning for the types of music he's interested in.
Are you stalking me, keeping statistics on what I do?
You made it very clear that you like to tell people what to do on the PE board.
I'm throwing it out there, if the OP wants to hear more he can comment.
As I said in the other thread 50 Hz is not enough, do what you want, I bet he won't
like it. Loud - go deaf listening to a bad sounding system, lol!
You made it very clear that you like to tell people what to do on the PE board.
I'm throwing it out there, if the OP wants to hear more he can comment.
As I said in the other thread 50 Hz is not enough, do what you want, I bet he won't
like it. Loud - go deaf listening to a bad sounding system, lol!
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I think you might be a bit paranoid. You know very well I've been a member here for years.
You use that word "ignore" but I don't think you know what it means.
I was simply pointing out the drivers are not available and you are actively trying to start a fight by namecalling. Again. I'm not going to fight with you.
You use that word "ignore" but I don't think you know what it means.
I was simply pointing out the drivers are not available and you are actively trying to start a fight by namecalling. Again. I'm not going to fight with you.
this forum is not very active.... I've seen all 4 of you twos interactions in the last 4 days and I'm not stalking eithr of you.
OP has 2 problems. Space, and he cant keep up with the mids/highs.
How does the epic 12, with its hefty xmax, 2" voice coil with low thermal power handling of 250w RMS (yeah, that 500w "rms" is really AES), heavy cone, and low fs suit this application of essientially 4 pi, bass reproduction on a boat in a small space?
Again, the 12 hp1030... much better solution. wayyyy more bass above 35hz for the space (and givin power ceiling)
OP has 2 problems. Space, and he cant keep up with the mids/highs.
How does the epic 12, with its hefty xmax, 2" voice coil with low thermal power handling of 250w RMS (yeah, that 500w "rms" is really AES), heavy cone, and low fs suit this application of essientially 4 pi, bass reproduction on a boat in a small space?
Again, the 12 hp1030... much better solution. wayyyy more bass above 35hz for the space (and givin power ceiling)
What's up in the nose of the boat? What's under the floor? My brother has a boat similar to this. Not quite as fancy but same style size and shape. When he wanted a sub I put it up in the nose, facing forward. Keeps the driver dry up there. If he wanted a bigger sub I'd sink it under the floor. There's a massive amount of wasted space down there.
If there's an issue with cutting the boat this might not work, but those are a couple of options to get around the size and driver protection issues.
If there's an issue with cutting the boat this might not work, but those are a couple of options to get around the size and driver protection issues.
I think this is going in the right direction, though I suspect the shape restrictions may indicate that a simple slot-loaded vented box may have to be used instead.
Things to consider are not only the size and shape, but weather-proofing (after all, this is going in a boat). I might even consider a dual-12 slot-loaded sealed design using car audio drivers with poly cones and rubber surrounds. The Infinity drivers come to mind. The PDX amp is definitely 2-ohm capable, so any sub design should include a requirement to provide a 2 ohm load to the amp for best results. The "slot" should also be angled to ensure that water does not collect in it.
I don't even like boats (I get seasick) but I do know that up here on Lake Erie you can spend all day in between the public ports and beaches and rarely see anyone. When you do see someone, sound dies at 6db per doubling of distance and you never really get that close to anyone on a speed boat even if the area is crowded. Then consider that the motors on those things are REALLY loud so unless the sound system is pretty beefy the engine noise is going to drown most of it out. Residences are usually set back at least a mile from the waterfront except near the public port areas so it's not an issue for the homeowners near the lake either.
If it's a very small private lake with several waterfront residences and beaches populated by senior citizens that's a different story, the boat itself might not even be appropriate. But I don't see much problem on a bigger lake. And certainly not during daylight hours when everybody is making noise anyway.
If it's a very small private lake with several waterfront residences and beaches populated by senior citizens that's a different story, the boat itself might not even be appropriate. But I don't see much problem on a bigger lake. And certainly not during daylight hours when everybody is making noise anyway.
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I still think the nose is probably the best spot, it's usually a huge empty area, it's bone dry up there and the shape of the nose is a big waveguide that funnels the sound back into the seating area. The nose might even be big and long enough to provide some gain in the sub's passband too, and free acoustic gain is always nice. Unless it requires significant mods to the current structure to get it up there, I think there are too many potential benefits to ignore.
Yea pick one and go with it.
I think I could fit 2 12s or a single 15 if I dropped in in vertically.
Your idea sounds like basically a vented box that fires upwards into a big slot. Does the picture describe what you are thinking? If so any idea how to simulate that? Would that be kind of a quasi 6th order bandpass?
Attachments
Can you explain what you mean by "firing through the slot plenum" I am having trouble finding Xrk's design.
Can you expand on this a bit. I am only going from what I am reading so I don't really have anything to compare to. I don't know what a 50hz tuned box would actually sound like.
The bow is open seating. Under the floor is mostly used up for ballast. There is a chance I could do something up there but it would require significant cutting. I would rather see what I could do with the other space first.
Can you help me understand exactly what this means? I am not sure what "slot loaded sealed" means.