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Othorn vs XOC Th118 comparison for fun.
Othorn vs XOC Th118 comparison for fun.
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Old 27th February 2015, 08:42 PM   #21
Zwiller is offline Zwiller  United States
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Thanks for posting HR data. A quick comparison of mine and we're pretty far off. I will dig later... Wow, very interesting to read those cabs are nearly identical...
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Old 27th February 2015, 11:34 PM   #22
Xoc1 is online now Xoc1  United Kingdom
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I'm sure that the TH18 can be improved on. One interesting aspect of the Othorn is the theoretical compression ratio at S2 in a Hornresp sim is far greater, over 4:1 compared with 2.5 in the TH18. But we now know that this is not the true compression as it does not take account of the internal volume of the cone.
Builders of the TH18 that have increased the compression at S2 have had good results. Of course increasing the compression could be disastrous with some drivers and beneficial with others.

Interestingly my first ever posting of the TH18 design had far less reflectors and was therefore even closer to the Danley TH118. The extra reflectors were added because of other forum members requests.

I do know of a extended version of the TH18 which was built with good results for extra bass extension. Predictably the efficiency suffered as a result, all the aspects need to be balanced. Again the Othorn has an edge here as its 21" driver can push more air.
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Old 28th February 2015, 01:19 AM   #23
just a guy is offline just a guy  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoc1 View Post
I'm sure that the TH18 can be improved on. One interesting aspect of the Othorn is the theoretical compression ratio at S2 in a Hornresp sim is far greater, over 4:1 compared with 2.5 in the TH18. But we now know that this is not the true compression as it does not take account of the internal volume of the cone.
Builders of the TH18 that have increased the compression at S2 have had good results. Of course increasing the compression could be disastrous with some drivers and beneficial with others.
Are there any measurements that show an improvement from "cone correction"? Or is it all subjective? Please show links.

The cone divot doesn't change compression ratio and simulating the divot as a throat chamber shows that it makes almost no difference at all.

At least a couple of senior forum members have said that "cone correction" won't do anything good and could possibly make things worse by creating an interruption in the line.

If there's any measurements or anything objective that shows "cone correction" does anything good that you could link to I'd like to see it.
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Old 28th February 2015, 02:35 AM   #24
Alethia123 is offline Alethia123
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The othorn is a pretty darn incredible subwoofer. My girlfriend and I have dragged this pair in and out of 30-40 diff gigs of all sorts over the last year and they never cease to amaze. I mean just when you expect them to run out of extension or output they just go that extra bit. We pulled a 21-152 driver out for cleaning today and it seems good as new. These things have taken an absolute beating and are cruising right along.

We also played with the xoc th18 today. I liked it more today then the last time. Its really not THAT far off from an othorn. People have told me its really only a 40hz sub but it sounds deeper than that. They aren't so different to where you would want to run them together, both dominate 35hz-60hz so it would be to much overlap in my opinion.

Its so nice to be able to wrestle it around! Another cool thing about the xoc is that you can stack them so easily. Othorns may need many people or machinery after a few level levels (well...to do it safely at least). We want to build several th18s and would love to add the corrections!!

I would be game to try a keystone, is there a link to detailed plans por favor? I feel like weltersys normally pops in by now. Must be busy designing more speakers!
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Old 28th February 2015, 02:54 AM   #25
ErnieM is offline ErnieM  United States
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Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers

Post 94 and 97
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Old 28th February 2015, 05:12 PM   #26
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just a guy View Post
Are there any measurements that show an improvement from "cone correction"? Or is it all subjective? Please show links.

The cone divot doesn't change compression ratio and simulating the divot as a throat chamber shows that it makes almost no difference at all.

At least a couple of senior forum members have said that "cone correction" won't do anything good and could possibly make things worse by creating an interruption in the line.

If there's any measurements or anything objective that shows "cone correction" does anything good that you could link to I'd like to see it.
There are tons of measurements of designs that have a weak low corner due to the lack of accounting for the volume in the cone.
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Old 28th February 2015, 06:08 PM   #27
just a guy is offline just a guy  Canada
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There are tons of measurements of designs that have a weak low corner due to the lack of accounting for the volume in the cone.
I'm not even sure what you mean by this. A simulation will show that there is almost no difference at all between not simulating a throat chamber at all and simulating a throat chamber of a few liters to account for the cone divot.

If there is a well known advantage to "cone correction" there should be plenty of measurements to back this up.

Can you provide a single measurement to show the benefit, or at least a single measurement to show what you mean by "a weak low corner due to lack of accounting for the volume in the cone"?

I know there are a couple of subjective reviews of cone correction but that means nothing, it's what you would expect to hear from someone who believes that the extra work they did would provide a benefit. I'd like to see measurements, at least one measurement.
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Old 1st March 2015, 01:12 PM   #28
Zwiller is offline Zwiller  United States
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Looks like HR data I used for the KS was revised later in the thread. Not sure how I missed it. Thank for pointing this out guys. Sure as heck, looks identical to XOC now.
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Old 1st March 2015, 05:10 PM   #29
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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The KS is tuned higher than the TH18.
The KS is also bigger and has more frontal area, it should be more efficient in band.
The KS is a simple build but requires it more wood, you pay more for the simplicity effectively.
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Old 1st March 2015, 06:11 PM   #30
sine143 is offline sine143  United States
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there is a 2 percent difference in size between the outsized volume of the keystone and the th18. the lack of reflectors and minimal bends in the keystone means it has a bit more internal volume.

I'm not sure I follow how it takes more wood..., other than the nee for a full front panel.

while the keystone has a shorter pathlength, the mouth restriction brings tuning down to a similar level.
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