I have been offered to buy a pair of Eminence LAB12 for 1500SEK ($235) + shipping.
What fun can be done with these? I have a pair of floorstanders with two Morel CAW638 per box in ported cabinet, they reach down to about 30-35Hz. I would like some more headroom and power below ~60Hz.
Room size is about 16sqm and the cabinets can't be too big (the Labhorn is too big).
I was thinking of maybe powering them with a Behringer iNuke amp and using a miniDSP for XO.
I see WinISD recommends vented 100l tuned to ~22-23Hz but 100l is a little too big I think, especially since I'd need two 100l cabinets.
What cabinet would you suggest? I have seen that it is popular with smaller sealed cabinets and using EQ but doesn't that mean limited capacity in the lower regions (sub30Hz)?
What fun can be done with these? I have a pair of floorstanders with two Morel CAW638 per box in ported cabinet, they reach down to about 30-35Hz. I would like some more headroom and power below ~60Hz.
Room size is about 16sqm and the cabinets can't be too big (the Labhorn is too big).
I was thinking of maybe powering them with a Behringer iNuke amp and using a miniDSP for XO.
I see WinISD recommends vented 100l tuned to ~22-23Hz but 100l is a little too big I think, especially since I'd need two 100l cabinets.
What cabinet would you suggest? I have seen that it is popular with smaller sealed cabinets and using EQ but doesn't that mean limited capacity in the lower regions (sub30Hz)?
Well, I didn't know the exact size of the Labhorn since I didn't really check it up. I just knew it was too big for my room since it's a horn.
I don't need to hit 20Hz, I'm fine with 25 and up.
I haven't really read much about the DSP in that amp, I have always thought the miniDSP was better and more user friendly. I will go look it up.
Btw, my mains are capable of pretty good SPL. ~91dB sensitivity and ~300-400w power handling.
I don't need to hit 20Hz, I'm fine with 25 and up.
I haven't really read much about the DSP in that amp, I have always thought the miniDSP was better and more user friendly. I will go look it up.
Btw, my mains are capable of pretty good SPL. ~91dB sensitivity and ~300-400w power handling.
... But will your mains still sound good at 400w input?
For your requirements, I'd say either small sealed with plenty of eq (make sure you get the cabinet size so that Xmax and power handling run out at roughly the same time), or maybe isobaric ported.
With the sealed option, you can choose the lower cutoff. You could, for example, throw a lot of power around and get down to 15Hz (for example). This would be great for movies, but there's not a lot of music with anything so low. I have noticed that electronic music benefits from the extra extension.
The ported option would probably provide more headroom to around 20Hz, but you can't go below port tuning.
I'd go sealed, but its your call: extension vs SPL**.
Chris
** that's not to say that 2x12" sealed would be short of SPL - far from it - but if you wanted that extra SPL, you know what to do.
For your requirements, I'd say either small sealed with plenty of eq (make sure you get the cabinet size so that Xmax and power handling run out at roughly the same time), or maybe isobaric ported.
With the sealed option, you can choose the lower cutoff. You could, for example, throw a lot of power around and get down to 15Hz (for example). This would be great for movies, but there's not a lot of music with anything so low. I have noticed that electronic music benefits from the extra extension.
The ported option would probably provide more headroom to around 20Hz, but you can't go below port tuning.
I'd go sealed, but its your call: extension vs SPL**.
Chris
** that's not to say that 2x12" sealed would be short of SPL - far from it - but if you wanted that extra SPL, you know what to do.
Probably not. I haven't tried going that far.
Isobaric ported seems like a better choice. WinISD says 51l tuned to 23Hz. Problem is vent length which is really really long. Not sure how to build that box.
I don't need extension down to below 20Hz. I'd rather have good output 25-30Hz and up instead.
I don't know if WinISD is wrong or if it's me that is wrong, but it seems like sealed with EQ only gives me about 101dB at 25Hz, 104dB at 30Hz and 109dB at 40Hz. The 40Hz performance is fine but I'd like more at 30Hz and below. Is vented the only option?
Isobaric ported seems like a better choice. WinISD says 51l tuned to 23Hz. Problem is vent length which is really really long. Not sure how to build that box.
I don't need extension down to below 20Hz. I'd rather have good output 25-30Hz and up instead.
I don't know if WinISD is wrong or if it's me that is wrong, but it seems like sealed with EQ only gives me about 101dB at 25Hz, 104dB at 30Hz and 109dB at 40Hz. The 40Hz performance is fine but I'd like more at 30Hz and below. Is vented the only option?
I'm reading off 107dB@25Hz, 110dB at 30Hz, and 115dB at 40Hz.
The above are all excursion limited. I suspect you've set the cabinet size too small, and that has resulted in thermal power ratings being reached before all the excursion is used.
Chris
PS - IIRC, WinISD computes for half-space. You've got room gain and boundry re-inforcement yet.
PPS - use 60L for the two drivers (sealed), and set the power input to 800w. At that cabinet volume you *just* run out of excursion when the amplifier begins to clip.
The above are all excursion limited. I suspect you've set the cabinet size too small, and that has resulted in thermal power ratings being reached before all the excursion is used.
Chris
PS - IIRC, WinISD computes for half-space. You've got room gain and boundry re-inforcement yet.
PPS - use 60L for the two drivers (sealed), and set the power input to 800w. At that cabinet volume you *just* run out of excursion when the amplifier begins to clip.
I set the cabinet size to ~50l.
So you think sealed 50l per sub will be fine enough for me? I still see excursion being the main problem. But maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
So would this be good bang for the buck? I guess the drivers in total will be ~$300 including shipping. If so, I'll buy them.
So you think sealed 50l per sub will be fine enough for me? I still see excursion being the main problem. But maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
So would this be good bang for the buck? I guess the drivers in total will be ~$300 including shipping. If so, I'll buy them.
I'm saying you could go down to 30L per sub, and apply a Linkwitz Transform to pick the SPL/f3 you want. You won't lose any SPL capability until you drop below 30L:
Small sealed cabinets resist the movement of the cone more than larger cabinets. So, more power is needed to make the cone move by a given amount.
So long as you reach Xmax, you are getting the most you can from the drivers.
It will take more power to reach Xmax in a smaller cabinet.
30L is as small as you can go while still reaching Xmax, and staying within the power rating of the driver.
Therefore, 30L is the smallest cabinet volume that you can use, while still getting everything the drivers have to give.
Note: this doesn't take into account the thermal de-rating introduced by small sealed cabinets, but given that music (or movies) rarely has continuous bass output for long enough to shift the temperature of the whole motor structure, I think you'll be fine.
I would be worried if, in your room, you ran these flat out for any length of time, except to see what happens.
Chris
Just to show how outclassed the 4 little 6" morels (with only 4.2mm of travel) will be by the labs here they are in a standard ported box.
Just to add they run out of excursion at 50hz with as little as 20 watts to each driver.
Okay, I'll buy them and put them in 30l sealed boxes. That will allow me to place them quite freely in the room since 30l is really tiny.
Will the iNuke 3000dsp be enough or do I need a bigger amplifier with more power?
Just to add they run out of excursion at 50hz with as little as 20 watts to each driver.
No problems since I have a massive roomgain peak at ~50Hz of about 10-15dB.
Counter balance
Hi,
Take some time to consider a counter balanced design, Either push pull slot load or a woofer on oposite sides of the box. PPSL will give you the mechanical, thd cancelation plus compresion in about a 4 cubic foot box. 6th order can be used to lower F3 and reduce box size at the expense of power. The cheap INukes and other amps with DSP can make it all come together.
All in all a person can build a sub that'll have excellent output at low F3 in a reasonable box.
Later
Hi,
Take some time to consider a counter balanced design, Either push pull slot load or a woofer on oposite sides of the box. PPSL will give you the mechanical, thd cancelation plus compresion in about a 4 cubic foot box. 6th order can be used to lower F3 and reduce box size at the expense of power. The cheap INukes and other amps with DSP can make it all come together.
All in all a person can build a sub that'll have excellent output at low F3 in a reasonable box.
Later
Although PPSL reduces even order harmonic distortion (which the Lab 12 has very little of below Xmax) it exposes the rear vent to the "outside world".
The Lab 12 has quite a bit of vent noise, in experimenting with PP, I found the vent noise to be unacceptable.
Hi Rullknufs,
"...expect to have them on wednesday or thursday."
Great, build two sealed boxes somewhere between 30L and 70L, fill loosely with fiberfill, eq (or apply LR transform), start tuning their position in the room (and the room), and let us know how you like it.
Regards,
"...expect to have them on wednesday or thursday."
Great, build two sealed boxes somewhere between 30L and 70L, fill loosely with fiberfill, eq (or apply LR transform), start tuning their position in the room (and the room), and let us know how you like it.
Regards,
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Is there any pros or cons going for close to 30l instead of close to 70l? I mean sonically, not the obvious that a smaller box is easier to fit in my room.
Is this damping material okay? Visaton Damping Material - Thomann Cyberstore Sverige
As for amplier I think the Behringer iNuke NU6000DSP should be fine. It's only about €35 more than the NU3000DSP and I guess the extra power can be nice.
Does anybody have information about fan-modding the Behringer iNukes?
Is this damping material okay? Visaton Damping Material - Thomann Cyberstore Sverige
As for amplier I think the Behringer iNuke NU6000DSP should be fine. It's only about €35 more than the NU3000DSP and I guess the extra power can be nice.
Does anybody have information about fan-modding the Behringer iNukes?
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