This is not about grill cloths.
I'm assuming that those vary widely, and essentially soften the high end (treble),
with the lighter the fabric, the sparser the weave, the better.
I'm talking now about bass woofer screens, made of metal.
These appear to physically block half the radiating area or more.
I'm guessing that these metal grills cause significant effects:
(1) They must cause half-power size reflections back into the speaker cone, and 'shadow' cancellation at odd frequencies, especially for woofers that are going up to 120 - 1200 Hz.
(2) They must cause sound wave diffractions around the grill pattern, and perhaps add harmonic or intermodulation distortion to the original sound-waves.
(3) They must also possibly contribute "whistles", i.e., wind noises, especially with loud subwoofers and large excursion speakers.
This so far is just in my head.
But I was thinking that you could have almost as good protection (which is the main purpose for me, as opposed to looks, which are always dubious) with thin metal screening,
i.e., protection from pencil-poking, cap cave-ins, and furniture corners, falling drunks etc.,
But with a coarse, but thin metal screen there should be a lot less effect on sound(?).
I'm interested to hear others' experiences in this area,
and product evaluations, because I see little out there in the minimalist direction.
I wish they'd just make cheap covers for say 10" / 12" woofers that were black, see-through, and of a light enough gauge to be of no concern.
Taking covers on and off is a needless creation of non-productive labor,
and all the screens I've seen so far block way too much,
and I am thinking a thin metal screen would be as protective in 90% of accidents.
Also, prices (with shipping) are all over the map, but generally way too expensive (as much as drivers!).
What are manufacturers thinking?
Why would I pay as much for a grill as for an expensive, carefully engineered speaker driver, made of exotic components?
Examples:
Worst-Looking and probably worst performance:
12" Waffle speaker grill ($5.95 + $7.00 shipping)
+points: cheap, protects from most accidents.
- points: Doesn't protect from pencil-pokes, wires, chopsticks, or drink spills.
Moderately Better:
12" Subwoofer grills ($25.20/pair, $20 shipping = $24 ea)
+points: Slightly better looking, better protection
- points: I can by a good woofer for the same price.
Best Found So Far:
Two-Piece 12" Grill: ($18 + $20 Shipping = $38 ea! minor break on shipping quantities)
+ points: Best looking, best protection from pokes and spills.
- points: Still blocks air movement very significantly. Price is ridiculous.
A Fourth kind of option is this sort of thing:
But these are also expensive, ranging from $15 + shipping to $50 (who are they kidding),
and they are almost all outright garish and ugly looking.
Who can stand to look at these? Only Pioneer seems to have any fashion-sense, and it ain't great.
On top of this, they only protect the speaker from the crudest of accidents (large falling objects).
I'm thinking a much better solution is some kind of spaced screening, bake-painted black and trimmed square (maybe bent).
The idea is metal screening to stop puncture or ripping,
and small enough holes to stop pencils and pens, yet not block air-flow.
Also, you should be able to source this stuff by the yard, (i.e., for 12" - 15" speakers per yard)
at a decent price.
And why doesn't any speaker-cover manufacturer take this seriously and offer a decent product?
!
I'm assuming that those vary widely, and essentially soften the high end (treble),
with the lighter the fabric, the sparser the weave, the better.
I'm talking now about bass woofer screens, made of metal.
These appear to physically block half the radiating area or more.
I'm guessing that these metal grills cause significant effects:
(1) They must cause half-power size reflections back into the speaker cone, and 'shadow' cancellation at odd frequencies, especially for woofers that are going up to 120 - 1200 Hz.
(2) They must cause sound wave diffractions around the grill pattern, and perhaps add harmonic or intermodulation distortion to the original sound-waves.
(3) They must also possibly contribute "whistles", i.e., wind noises, especially with loud subwoofers and large excursion speakers.
This so far is just in my head.
But I was thinking that you could have almost as good protection (which is the main purpose for me, as opposed to looks, which are always dubious) with thin metal screening,
i.e., protection from pencil-poking, cap cave-ins, and furniture corners, falling drunks etc.,
But with a coarse, but thin metal screen there should be a lot less effect on sound(?).
I'm interested to hear others' experiences in this area,
and product evaluations, because I see little out there in the minimalist direction.
I wish they'd just make cheap covers for say 10" / 12" woofers that were black, see-through, and of a light enough gauge to be of no concern.
Taking covers on and off is a needless creation of non-productive labor,
and all the screens I've seen so far block way too much,
and I am thinking a thin metal screen would be as protective in 90% of accidents.
Also, prices (with shipping) are all over the map, but generally way too expensive (as much as drivers!).
What are manufacturers thinking?
Why would I pay as much for a grill as for an expensive, carefully engineered speaker driver, made of exotic components?
Examples:
Worst-Looking and probably worst performance:
12" Waffle speaker grill ($5.95 + $7.00 shipping)
+points: cheap, protects from most accidents.
- points: Doesn't protect from pencil-pokes, wires, chopsticks, or drink spills.
Moderately Better:
12" Subwoofer grills ($25.20/pair, $20 shipping = $24 ea)
+points: Slightly better looking, better protection
- points: I can by a good woofer for the same price.
Best Found So Far:
Two-Piece 12" Grill: ($18 + $20 Shipping = $38 ea! minor break on shipping quantities)
+ points: Best looking, best protection from pokes and spills.
- points: Still blocks air movement very significantly. Price is ridiculous.
A Fourth kind of option is this sort of thing:
But these are also expensive, ranging from $15 + shipping to $50 (who are they kidding),
and they are almost all outright garish and ugly looking.
Who can stand to look at these? Only Pioneer seems to have any fashion-sense, and it ain't great.
On top of this, they only protect the speaker from the crudest of accidents (large falling objects).
I'm thinking a much better solution is some kind of spaced screening, bake-painted black and trimmed square (maybe bent).
The idea is metal screening to stop puncture or ripping,
and small enough holes to stop pencils and pens, yet not block air-flow.
Also, you should be able to source this stuff by the yard, (i.e., for 12" - 15" speakers per yard)
at a decent price.
And why doesn't any speaker-cover manufacturer take this seriously and offer a decent product?
!
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One can see from the typical grill pattern how much air is being blocked:
Fender has been using the above style on their "Rumble" bass amps,
and it looks stylish with careful folding, but it blocks a lot of air....
Something like this below would be better, blocking less air:
But my concern here is still that wind-noise might be generated by the sharp corners and edges.
Something more promising is this:
This is actually offered as speaker-grill material.
Encouraging, but perhaps still not light enough in my mind.
Another popular style is as below:
This is a type of cut and stretched grill made of sheetmetal.
The protection is rather good, especially in smaller hole formats,
but the drawback is that this is like a very sharp cheese-grater!
You can really injure yourself on these, even when painted,
and I'm still dubious of the amount of air-blockage and wind-noise potential,
although the angled flat-spaces prevent direct reflections back into the speaker.
It has an ugly look, unless painted black and also the wood etc. see-through is also treated with black paint.
Using light-blocking cloth might be self-defeating in terms of trying to minimize wind-resistance.
I'm still thinking even more space, like this over-stretched pattern below:
expanded metal for bbq grill
But the problem now would be how to buy in small quantities.
This kind of stuff is custom-made and ordered by the skid-full.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Fender has been using the above style on their "Rumble" bass amps,
and it looks stylish with careful folding, but it blocks a lot of air....
Something like this below would be better, blocking less air:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
But my concern here is still that wind-noise might be generated by the sharp corners and edges.
Something more promising is this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is actually offered as speaker-grill material.
- Product: Speaker Mesh
- Model Number: TY15-18
Encouraging, but perhaps still not light enough in my mind.
Another popular style is as below:
This is a type of cut and stretched grill made of sheetmetal.
The protection is rather good, especially in smaller hole formats,
but the drawback is that this is like a very sharp cheese-grater!
You can really injure yourself on these, even when painted,
and I'm still dubious of the amount of air-blockage and wind-noise potential,
although the angled flat-spaces prevent direct reflections back into the speaker.
It has an ugly look, unless painted black and also the wood etc. see-through is also treated with black paint.
Using light-blocking cloth might be self-defeating in terms of trying to minimize wind-resistance.
I'm still thinking even more space, like this over-stretched pattern below:
expanded metal for bbq grill
But the problem now would be how to buy in small quantities.
This kind of stuff is custom-made and ordered by the skid-full.
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Surprisingly, in speakers, we don't see much of a very common standard methodology,
when dealing with light and ventilation, namely the 'egg-crate' style grid:
This is used to support heavy weight, yet not block either air or light.
The plastic version is used in lighting fixtures, with the obvious purpose of protecting the lights from impacts.
Plastic versions are obviously cheap, and so can be broken without undue replacement costs, while still giving good protection.
The concern here is if the grid is too deep, that it might start acting as a directed tube, or a diffraction-grid.
But I think you could go sensibly deep for strength,
say a 1/4" or 3/8" deep in a metal interlocking grid,
yet stay thin on the walls,
which would minimize both air blockage and 'waveguide' effects.
Again, the protection would be significantly increased,
even from accidental drink spills! Because the grill would prevent some direct splashing.
I have never tried a lighting grill as a speaker grill,
but it might be interesting as an experiment.
when dealing with light and ventilation, namely the 'egg-crate' style grid:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is used to support heavy weight, yet not block either air or light.
The plastic version is used in lighting fixtures, with the obvious purpose of protecting the lights from impacts.
Plastic versions are obviously cheap, and so can be broken without undue replacement costs, while still giving good protection.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The concern here is if the grid is too deep, that it might start acting as a directed tube, or a diffraction-grid.
But I think you could go sensibly deep for strength,
say a 1/4" or 3/8" deep in a metal interlocking grid,
yet stay thin on the walls,
which would minimize both air blockage and 'waveguide' effects.
Again, the protection would be significantly increased,
even from accidental drink spills! Because the grill would prevent some direct splashing.
I have never tried a lighting grill as a speaker grill,
but it might be interesting as an experiment.
Nazaroo,
Most manufacturers concerned with audio quality (and aesthetics) back the perforated metal grills with acoustically transparent foam.
If you are concerned about sound degradation from metal grills, why not simply use good quality grill cloth, which has no ringing, diffraction, or HF absorption problems?
I have used grill cloth on hundreds of cabinets (except one shop sub that uses some material I found on my property similar to the Speaker Mesh Model Number: TY15-18) and have never had a single cone damaged, even in stage situations with band members standing on the monitors.
Art
Most manufacturers concerned with audio quality (and aesthetics) back the perforated metal grills with acoustically transparent foam.
If you are concerned about sound degradation from metal grills, why not simply use good quality grill cloth, which has no ringing, diffraction, or HF absorption problems?
I have used grill cloth on hundreds of cabinets (except one shop sub that uses some material I found on my property similar to the Speaker Mesh Model Number: TY15-18) and have never had a single cone damaged, even in stage situations with band members standing on the monitors.
Art
Grill Material
I built a subwoofer (12" tapped horn) with a 7" x 16" opening. After much research and sticker-shock, I finally came upon a section of the expanded screen material that you show at the end of your examples. Home Depot sells a small section (20" x 36" if I recall correctly) for right at $10 US. I sanded it to remove the sharp edges, primed and spray-painted it. It can be bent easily and accurately using a Work-Mate bench.
As far as sound quality, there is absolutely NO wind noise, and there is no discernible reduction in sound. I bought the 1/2" hole size; it doesn't pass your pencil-test, but it will stop a kicking foot. It was the perfect solution for me.
I built a subwoofer (12" tapped horn) with a 7" x 16" opening. After much research and sticker-shock, I finally came upon a section of the expanded screen material that you show at the end of your examples. Home Depot sells a small section (20" x 36" if I recall correctly) for right at $10 US. I sanded it to remove the sharp edges, primed and spray-painted it. It can be bent easily and accurately using a Work-Mate bench.
As far as sound quality, there is absolutely NO wind noise, and there is no discernible reduction in sound. I bought the 1/2" hole size; it doesn't pass your pencil-test, but it will stop a kicking foot. It was the perfect solution for me.
I'm a bit confused here:
Do you mean acoustically absorbent foam?
It would seem that a foam which was transparent would do nothing, and a foam with a smooth surface would reflect sound.
A foam that took a pounding and allowed compression,
might add non-musically related distortion (IM),
while a foam that absorbed sound energy would be ideal.
I like the idea of a cloth covering:
Is there a kind which is virtually rip-proof?
I don't think it would be Kevlar, but I don't have experience with cloth.
Perhaps Parachute material would be ideal in terms of tearing, but of course it would block air!
Good stuff!
I saw a "drywall repair patch" which was about 8" by maybe 10", and only about $8. It looked like it might make a cheap 8" protector.
I'm still stumped on the pencil-test,
which is a very common kind of malicious act,
easily done.
Same problem they have with 'knife-proof' chain-link vests and ice-picks!
Somebody did some % area coverage measurements,
which might be useful:
Sample #2 looks ideal in terms of the pencil-test.
which might be useful:
Reliable Hardware quantifies how acoustically open their various flat stock is. The more open to air flow a grill is, the less it reflects output back at the cone, and the lighter it will be for its type. I would never recommend anything less than 50% open.
expanded diamond cut - 63% open
perforated 5/32" round hole - 62.4% open
and in distant third:
perforated 3/8" square hole - 56.2% open
After doing a lot of web crawling these seem to be the way to go for full-coverage metal jackets. My preference used to be the expanded diamond cut, but the 5/32 round hole grill has taken its place. Downsides to Reliable? Minimum order there is $25, and shipping for only one grill is rather high. So you may want to order something else there too
Sample #2 looks ideal in terms of the pencil-test.
Timely topic
My garage arrays are almost complete and they need grills to protect them from
flying parts, flying liquids and the sun. I was thinking of mounting a screen type
grill to 1.5" (38mm) rubber bumpers and have the grill suspended in front of the drivers at that distance. Finish the grills off with acoustic cloth around the front and back to protect it from flying beer and sunlight.
Would plastic or rubber coated metal grill material work better for sound or would that matter?
My garage arrays are almost complete and they need grills to protect them from
flying parts, flying liquids and the sun. I was thinking of mounting a screen type
grill to 1.5" (38mm) rubber bumpers and have the grill suspended in front of the drivers at that distance. Finish the grills off with acoustic cloth around the front and back to protect it from flying beer and sunlight.
Would plastic or rubber coated metal grill material work better for sound or would that matter?
For a grill to not create artifacts, it must be acoustically transparent, if it absorbs sound energy it will reduce HF.
I use Acoustone grill, same stuff as used by Fender and many other amp/speaker companies.
I have measured cabinets with and without Acoustone grill, it causes virtually no acoustical change in the HF (1/4 dB at 16 kHz), and no change in the LF.
It is not rip-proof, but the only "rips" I have experienced were in some cabinets where the grill was flush with the front edge of the cabinet, the grill simply was abraded around the corners.
When the grill is recessed a bit, it lasts forever unless subjected to intentional abuse or extreme heat.
I found out about the heat problem once using a 1000 watt par 64 light to look through the grill on a 4 x 15" straight horn cabinet. Holding the light about a foot from the grill I could see one of the cones was missing some paper, after about 5 or ten seconds I could see the cones more clearly, the light had melted clear through the grill.
Oops.
Art
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I was just looking into speaker grills about 2 weeks ago, and I ran into the same question of transparency. I was looking at McNichols as well and came across the 'Hexagonal Perforated Products'. This was the best looking and most open (79% and 80%), but the aluminum is 0.032" and the steel is 16 Gauge. It doesn't sound like it would be to strong, I had a solid sheet of 0.032" aluminum for something else and it was pretty sturdy, but with 79% missing I'm not sure how It'll hold up.
Here are some pictures:
1/4 Hex Aluminum
1/2 Hex Steel
Here are some pictures:
1/4 Hex Aluminum
1/2 Hex Steel
One may be able to measure a difference but I doubt anyone can hear a difference between the metal grills pictured on this thread.
I've used most of them pictured for PA use.
If you want a decent cloth type grill Harbor Freight sells a Mesh Tarp that is almost identical to the Fender cloth and it is 20 bucks for 8x12 foot vs 32 bucks a yard.
Enjoy
I've used most of them pictured for PA use.
If you want a decent cloth type grill Harbor Freight sells a Mesh Tarp that is almost identical to the Fender cloth and it is 20 bucks for 8x12 foot vs 32 bucks a yard.
Enjoy
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