The Othorn tapped horn

Dang...Drivers down!
Hard to say exactly what the effects would be, but you would have to assume less air exchange & greater heat buildup in the cabs, loss of some output and possibly even shifting of the loading on the drivers since the air load at the mouth would have changed greatly.

It's safe to say that covering the mouth with fabric at the very least didn't do any favors for those drivers!

Are you reconing the damaged ones?
 
Wanted to chime in on this thread, ordered 4x 21sw152-4s & I'll be grinding for the next week to build 4x Othorns while I am still prototyping some other designs of my own are based on the same driver. Very excited to hear and feel the results after reading through the majority of this thread.

I've debated even building them at all but I really just gotta experience them for myself to add to a growing repertoire of listening impression & understanding.

I'll post a finished update, along with my pissed off my neighbors got, once those are built :)
 
there are watercooling sets available for modding pc's. you could run the pump off the speaker signal using a universal 85-230V ac-in supply. you need to find a way to attach the CPU cooling side to the magnet assembly thermally.
otherwise just use another radiator with fans to remove the heat form the airspace behind the speaker.
 
Hi !

Coming back there because my project is getting more concrete !

I plan to build some cabs for 2019 summer, so I'm giving myself 1 year to get enough money for everything.

I kept my idea of getting 2 othorns (for the size and the ~30hz output, it'll be mainly used for reggae and dub music, I want to try something different than scoops) but I'm struggling with my choice of driver.

Ideally I want a speaker which :
- Cost less than 350€, ideally around 300€.
- Can be powered by a Proline 3000 amp.

Would one of those do the job ?

- B&C 18NW100 - 4ohm version | Xmax = 9mm, 316€
- B&C 18TBW100 - 4ohm version | Xmax = 12mm, 335€
- B&C 18RBX100 -4ohm version | Xmax = 10mm, 240€

They are in my price range and the Proline 3000 could run 2 with a bit of headroom in theory (excepted for the 18TBW100).
Two of them have been mentionned in the thread but I can't find any feedbacks

I want to run these as low as possible for that earthquake feeling and up to 65hz-70hz, there will be kick cabs to take over.

Thanks for your time guys, I'm a beginner in this part of the audio world, any advice is welcome.
Alexandre.
 
Thanks for your answer, I'm pretty sure that 1*21" Othorn would be a better optimization than 2*18" but I plan to use them as a part of a soundsystem.

A solo cab wouldn't fit in, so for now, as I need 2 but my budget can't follow up, I plan to get 2*18" to later upgrade them with 21" and a better amplifier !

And if any accident occur during a party, I prefer to damage an okay driver than a top-end one ahah.

Alexandre.
 




2tbw18vs21sw154.png




here is a comparison 2tbw vs1 sw154 both @x-var.

2tbw can take 3000watts aes vs 21sw 2000 wats aes

drawback,you have 2 cabs to haul instead of one,and you need more power for 2 18's
i would sugest an amp capable of 2x3000 watts4ohm for the 2
or 1x4000 watts 4ohm for the single.imho
 
2tbw18vs21sw154.png




here is a comparison 2tbw vs1 sw154 both @x-var.

2tbw can take 3000watts aes vs 21sw 2000 wats aes

drawback,you have 2 cabs to haul instead of one,and you need more power for 2 18's
i would sugest an amp capable of 2x3000 watts4ohm for the 2
or 1x4000 watts 4ohm for the single.imho

Thanks for this, hope it can help others !

But as I said, I'll be doing it step by step :)

So for the beginning, I would prefer to get a budget amp (Proline 3000 fit perfectly).
The TBW needs too much power, I will not be able to run them correctly, it would be a waste.

So I'm looking after the B&C 18NW100.

Ricci said it would do the job at the very beginning of the Othorn but it looks like nobody tried it or shared their experiences.

But if the speaker does his job correctly, it would be perfect for a budget Othorn !
It doesn't require a lot of power and cost less than 300€.

------------STEP 1-------------

Does the B&C 18NW100 fits in the Othorn ?

I can't do the sim myself because it's like black magic for me right now, I don't have enough knowledge to visualize the datas and their effects.

If someone could do the sim or even better, tried the experience and can share his results, it would be perfect !

------------STEP 2-------------

If the B&C 18NW100 do his job :

The 18NW1000 needs 1200W AES / 2400W program.
The Proline 3000 does 2*1500W@4ohm and 1*3600W@4ohm bridge (and even a bit more considering some measurements).

I read that it handle quite easily the 4ohm bridge (not even getting warm but if someone else can attest, I would be grateful).

What would be the most reliable option :

- Getting 2x18NW100 version 4ohm and running them on each side at 4ohm ? (1500W/speaker)
OR
- Getting 2x18NW100 version 8ohm and running them in parallel at 4ohm bridge ?
(1800W/speaker)

------------STEP 3-------------

We could get 2 Othorn cabs for ~600€ of speakers and a 450€ amplifier (bargain price)

Thanks for reading, hope someone can help me in my quest ahah !

I really hope I'm not saying something totally crazy.
Even if it's not the most optimized thing to do, it's actually what would fit my needs.
 
here is the sim of one 18nw100 4r @x-var
18nw100%20othen.png

i would go fro the 4 ohm version.
then later you could buy an extra amp,and again later make some more othorns,and so on.



mind you that the efficiency of a scoop is much higher in comparison to the othorn.
 
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So I took 2 days to learn a bit about Hornresp instead of asking for sims ahah.
I did a lot of sims (all at 2*Pi) and ended up with 1 driver that could in theory fit in.

----- B&C 18NW100-4ohm

First, I measured the 18NW100-4ohm to complete Epa's datas.

Some specs :

- 273€
- 1200W A.E.S / 2400W Program
- Xmax : 9mm / Xlim : 11mm

The first sim I did was to reach Xmax, it just needed 400W to reach it with a SPL output of 122dB@30Hz.

B_C_18_NW100_4_xmax122d_B_400_W.png
B_C_18_NW100_4_Diaphragm_Displacement_400_W.png


The second was to reach Xlim, it needed 600W and the SPL output was 123,5dB@30Hz.

B_C_18_NW100_4_xlim124d_B_600_W.png
B_C_18_NW100_4_Diaphragm_Displacement_600_W.png


Except its low price, you can't feed it with more than 600W without damages, quite pointless to put this in.

----- FaitalPRO 18HP1030-4ohm

Then enter the other driver, the FaitalPRO 18HP1030-4ohm :

Some specs :

- 263€
- 1200W A.E.S / 2400W Program
- XMax : 12,45mm / Xlim : 23,1mm

The first sim I did was to reach Xmax, it needed 600W to reach it with a SPL output of 125dB@30Hz.

Faital_PRO18_HP1030_4_xmax125d_B_600_W.png
Faital_PRO18_HP1030_4_Diaphragm_Displacement_600_W.png


The second was with its A.E.S power, at 1200W it was perfectly between the Xmax and the Xlim with a SPL output of 128dB@30Hz

Faital_PRO18_HP1030_4_128d_B_1200_W.png
Faital_PRO18_HP1030_4_Diaphragm_Displacement_1200_W.png


The third was to reach Xlim, it needed 2000W and the SPL output was 130dB@30Hz.

Faital_PRO18_HP1030_4_xlim130d_B_2000_W.png
Faital_PRO18_HP1030_4_Diaphragm_Displacement_2000_W.png


----- CONCLUSION

For a bit less than half the price of a 21SW152-4ohm (650€) and half the amp power, you can get an honorable SPL output.

With 2 cabs (close to the price of 1cab loaded with the 21SW152-4ohm), if the distortion at 1200W is still reasonable you can get 135dB@30Hz out of these.

Is there something I don't see that would ruin my idea ?
I thought of thermal handling but after some reading it looks like it should handle it quite well.

It would be the perfect driver for what I'm looking for, a budget alternative which could be easily powered by a Proline 3000 !
 
S

Is there something I don't see that would ruin my idea ?
yes :)
first of you mistake the x-var(nowadays called max excursion )for x-limmit.
tho x-limmit is not stated in the specs for the 18nw 100 ,i'm sure it is at least the same or more as the fatial pro.
2nd you are not playng sine waves,but music.
the power figures are somewat differend for music.


ive bild quite a few th's for pro audio use,and i have never had a failure due to over excursion,only a few cooked coils(whe use primerely eightensound drivers)
 
yes :)
first of you mistake the x-var(nowadays called max excursion )for x-limmit.
tho x-limmit is not stated in the specs for the 18nw 100 ,i'm sure it is at least the same or more as the fatial pro.
2nd you are not playng sine waves,but music.
the power figures are somewat differend for music.


ive bild quite a few th's for pro audio use,and i have never had a failure due to over excursion,only a few cooked coils(whe use primerely eightensound drivers)


Ahah I had a doubt about this, it was so low and not writted as Xlim, was quite strange but I'm fixed now.

But even if the 18NW100 has a a Xlim close to 20mm, it will be at Xmax before the FaitalPRO, right ?
And then should come distorsion.

Considering the sims and your experience, would you agree that the 18HP1030 looks better than the 18NW100 ? Even if you're playing music which will induce peak of power and things.

Like if we put the driver in the Othorn, could it be pushed at 600W or even 1200W without getting destroyed ?
 
The published Xmax for both drivers is theoretically at 70% of its motor power. Meaning that it will be very doubtful if the published Xmax can be reached with a LF-driver of medium strength when loaded in a difficult load, like a tapped horn.
Instead calculate Xmax in a conventional way with: (winding depth minus magnetic depth) * 0.5
For the 18NW100 (4Ohm) that is: (25 - 12) * 0.5 = 6.5 mm
And for the FaitalPro 18HP1030 it comes down to: (28.9 – 12) * 0.5 = 8.45 mm

But you also need sufficient motor power to move that cone with a difficult load, like a tapped horn.
Rme = Electromagnetic damping [in N*s/m] is often used for indicating motor power.
Rme can be calculated with (BL*BL)/Re for unloaded and (BL*BL)/Zmin for a loaded driver (includes motor losses).

For the 18HP1030 (4Ohm) unloaded -> (21.7 * 21.7) / 2.9 = 162.38 N*s/m
For an 18HP1030 (4Ohm) loaded it results in (21.7 * 21.7) / 3.9 = 120.74 N*s/m
(a drop of 25.6% in motor power when loaded)

An 18NW100 (4Ohm) unloaded -> (24.7 * 24.7) / 3.7 = 164.89 N*s/m
18NW100 (4Ohm) loaded -> (24.7 * 24.7) / 4.5 = 135.58 N*s/m
(a drop of 18.6% in motor power when loaded)

For reference an 18SW115 (4Ohm) unloaded -> 205.95 N*s/m
18SW115 (4Ohm) loaded-> 165.77 N*s/m
(a drop of 19.5% in motor power when loaded)

In other words, the 18HP1030 has more Xmax but has a weaker motor compared to the 18NW100. I wouldn't be so sure if the 18HP1030 is a good choice for a difficult load like the Othorn…
 
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