Thanks for this Art - greatly appreciated.
I have quite severe tinnitus myself (from years of standing right next to absolutely trash PA's being pushed exceptionally hard)... And absolutely don't want to expose the audience to the same.
But there still are the constraints of small gigs. I know you have extensive experience in massive shows, and that informs this guidance. But this rig is - at times - going to be used in courtyards and small venues, where hanging the PM90's at +2m from ear level is going to be tough.
That being said - the message is received. Elevate the tops as much as possible above ear height. The PM90's do have the pole mount, so will look to employ that.
Will do some reading about angling the tops when elevated too - look forward to learning about the impact of directivity as we explore rigging the tops as high as we can.
Will look into some sort a modular scaffold too - could be fun.
I have quite severe tinnitus myself (from years of standing right next to absolutely trash PA's being pushed exceptionally hard)... And absolutely don't want to expose the audience to the same.
But there still are the constraints of small gigs. I know you have extensive experience in massive shows, and that informs this guidance. But this rig is - at times - going to be used in courtyards and small venues, where hanging the PM90's at +2m from ear level is going to be tough.
That being said - the message is received. Elevate the tops as much as possible above ear height. The PM90's do have the pole mount, so will look to employ that.
Will do some reading about angling the tops when elevated too - look forward to learning about the impact of directivity as we explore rigging the tops as high as we can.
Will look into some sort a modular scaffold too - could be fun.
Hello People 
!
We own 8 Xoc-1. They have the 18sound 18NLW9000 driver. We are planning to build 8 More of them, but realized that the drivers we already own are not buyable any more. As we are not very experienced in calculating horn enclosures: Can anyone tell us whether the newer Version of the driver, the 18Sound 18NLW960, is usable for xoc1's awesome enclosure? We are using the first building plan he posted.
Could it even be possible to mix them, as long as we havend selled the old drivers? The TSP seems quite similar. (eventually as 2 seperate stacks)
We would be very grateful if someone could help us
Greetings from Germany
! We own 8 Xoc-1. They have the 18sound 18NLW9000 driver. We are planning to build 8 More of them, but realized that the drivers we already own are not buyable any more. As we are not very experienced in calculating horn enclosures: Can anyone tell us whether the newer Version of the driver, the 18Sound 18NLW960, is usable for xoc1's awesome enclosure? We are using the first building plan he posted.
Could it even be possible to mix them, as long as we havend selled the old drivers? The TSP seems quite similar. (eventually as 2 seperate stacks)
We would be very grateful if someone could help us
Greetings from Germany
1) Can't find a listing for a "18NLW960", though the 18NLW9601 would be "usable" in the Xoc-1.
2) You could mix them, though the TSP are enough different that you would probably want to use different EQ for each set.
3) The B&C 18SW115 TSP are actually more similar to the 18NLW9000 than the 18NLW9601.
The Xoc-1 TH-18 design is very similar to the DSL TH-118.
The DSL TH-118 originally used the 18Sound 18NLW9000-4 for a short time period after it's introduction, then shifted to using the B&C 18SW115-4.
Art
So strange, i was coming here to post about the exact same problem i'm having the same issue with horrible slapping/bucking noises! I've got the BMS 18N862 drivers installed. I'm gonna try your suggestions and see what i find as I really don't believe the drivers are a fault.
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One mistake I made with a similar build was to make the cutout for the driver according to the manufacturer's recommendations. That was wrong, as the recommendation is based on the driver being mounted through the hole, not on top of it (as in the case of the TH18). The hole should be cut smaller by a few mm, otherwise you may end up with air leaks all around the driver where it's fastened to the baffle.
We recently made a comparison between the 18Sound 18NLW9000, 18NLW9601 and the B&C 18SW115 in the first enclosure plan by Xoc1 that we built. Does anyone have any experiences with the B&C 18DS115? We thought that due to the lower Qes they might be even better than the 18SW115? We are pretty unexperienced and just read somewhere that lower Qes values fit better for horn speakers.
Greetings from Germany
Greetings from Germany
Hi all,
I am a sound technician that happens to be obsessed with big speakers and techno music. I have been seriously considering building some of my own T.H's for 2 years now. I've come across this design and have decided to go with it.
I live in Australia, so the only wood I can source here is Marine grade ply, I managed to find a good bargain on 18mm A/B grade sheets. Going to pick up some sheets soon once I calculate how much I need for 1 box.
In terms of drivers, I'm looking into the 18LW1400 or RCF LF18G401.
Just letting you all know I will be building these cabinets, and I'll try to share the progress!
Regards,
Lachie
I am a sound technician that happens to be obsessed with big speakers and techno music. I have been seriously considering building some of my own T.H's for 2 years now. I've come across this design and have decided to go with it.
I live in Australia, so the only wood I can source here is Marine grade ply, I managed to find a good bargain on 18mm A/B grade sheets. Going to pick up some sheets soon once I calculate how much I need for 1 box.
In terms of drivers, I'm looking into the 18LW1400 or RCF LF18G401.
Just letting you all know I will be building these cabinets, and I'll try to share the progress!
Regards,
Lachie
We recently made a comparison between the 18Sound 18NLW9000, 18NLW9601 and the B&C 18SW115 in the first enclosure plan by Xoc1 that we built. Does anyone have any experiences with the B&C 18DS115? We thought that due to the lower Qes they might be even better than the 18SW115? We are pretty unexperienced and just read somewhere that lower Qes values fit better for horn speakers.
Greetings from Germany
Hi Ravescape,
The 18DS115-8 are performing very well for us in this cab for a few years now. My perception is more noticeable clean output (vs 18SW115-8) with the motor staying much cooler.
Best regards,
Justin
Lower Qes in these days of good processing is not a problem at all. What might matter more is linearity, and that is the point where 18SW115 is supposed to win, if you fully exploit its excursion capabilities. These DS models do not like overexcursion, and I was not happy with thermal compression when you push them to move too much, close to Xvar. In cases where cone excursion is handled well, stronger motor is better. I wonder though, why 18DS115 has so long coil for great excursions, yet cannot fully use it. Hope that with restricted cone movements, the coil ends are not that likely to burn. One can look at it as a cooling mass too.
With bracing, bins can be constructed with 15mm ply. Due to the bracing, the savings is not that great, but it is well worth it. That's why can easily load two 21" bins in my car alone, without scratching anything. Easy, light... And I am by no means a bodybuilder.
Justin,
Do you have any comparative measurements between the cabinets loaded with either driver?
Thanks,
Art
@Crashpc
Maybe the suspenion? The DS series though does have found its way in a lot of products (who would have though B&C develops something for clients).
It definately is a efficient driver due to its strong motor. This combined with the good thermal limiters found in almost all touring amps make it a winner.
Lets see with what B&C comes up next!
Maybe the suspenion? The DS series though does have found its way in a lot of products (who would have though B&C develops something for clients
).It definately is a efficient driver due to its strong motor. This combined with the good thermal limiters found in almost all touring amps make it a winner.
Lets see with what B&C comes up next!
We are currently looking at rebuilding some of our system. We have a couple of 18SW115s these cabinets currently and potentially looking to build some more.
Our tops are Arts SintripPs. Overall our current system is crystal clear and feels smooth and deep, but lacks some punch in the upper bass. We have been considering adding some kicks to give it a bit of a boost around 80-160, would like to hear what other people of done.
Also curious to know where other people have set limiters for the 18SW115s. We are driving using a powersoft K10 and most concerned about thermal management and where to set the RMS limiter.
Our tops are Arts SintripPs. Overall our current system is crystal clear and feels smooth and deep, but lacks some punch in the upper bass. We have been considering adding some kicks to give it a bit of a boost around 80-160, would like to hear what other people of done.
Also curious to know where other people have set limiters for the 18SW115s. We are driving using a powersoft K10 and most concerned about thermal management and where to set the RMS limiter.
I'm setting my limiters to the voltage required to get P_AES*2/3, at the impedance minimum in the passband for my subs (In general, I don't have the TH-18) , hard knee (as limter), attack time 1s, release time 5s. Broadly following these powersoft recomendations: https://www.powersoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/powersoft_TN009_LimiterSetup_en_v1.0.pdf , Peak limiters (if required as this typicaly needs a powerful amp) are set by finding the voltage the sub is showing 3dB compresion. This is probobly conservative though as the tapped horns have lots of impedance peaks where the disipation is reduced so you may want to use this as a starting point and adjust upwards if you find the motor is cool. For long term heating monitoring the external surface tempreatue of the motor is a good method, you should not let this exceed 100c (by this point the coil is black and on its way out already).
hey everyone. it's amazing to see this thread still going! I managed to build 2 of these several years ago and they've been absolutely amazing. My only problem was the build quality....i let myself down and they've basically come apart from the inside. no idea how but anyway i'm gonna build another 2 but i'd like to incorporate the stub into my build but i haven't managed to find any plans with them included. I've attached my sketchup version but wanted some guidance as to how important the geometry of the stub pieces are and also are the brace parts sufficient? Any help is always appreciated!
