Hey guys. I've read the majority of the posts here over the last year or so, and I think i'm just coming to "get" how a TH works (Kind of).
I was playing around with HornResp (Which i've gotten working on my Mac) to get the hang of it. I used the T-S parameters from the Dayton Audio RSS315HO-4 in a 2x12 arrangement, same as the Lab12, and the Keystone parameters from Post #96.
I may have done something wrong, but it seems to come out rather nicely. I don't want anyone to do my work for me, but does that seem right?
I was playing around with HornResp (Which i've gotten working on my Mac) to get the hang of it. I used the T-S parameters from the Dayton Audio RSS315HO-4 in a 2x12 arrangement, same as the Lab12, and the Keystone parameters from Post #96.
I may have done something wrong, but it seems to come out rather nicely. I don't want anyone to do my work for me, but does that seem right?
Billy,
The TS parameters are close enough to the LAB12 that the RSS315HO-4 should work OK, if the amp you use can handle their low impedance.
Art
Hi guys, I'm planning my first Keystone build
, Iv'e previously built 2 VBSS subs using the Dayton Audio PA460-8 tuned to 31hz (for live band duties <100 people), worked really well but just not enough especially outdoors. So the upgrade plans are in place. ENTER the Keystones
Planning two cabs with B&C 18TBW100-4 installed.
But my question is where are you guys putting your handles? I want them flush mounted like this Parts Express Steel Bar Speaker Cabinet Handle , but obviously that will mean cutting in the walls and protruding into the cavity. Seems it cant be done on the sides. Next option is two on top and two on bottom. How will this effect the cabinets acoustic properties? Whats your recommendation? thanks
, Iv'e previously built 2 VBSS subs using the Dayton Audio PA460-8 tuned to 31hz (for live band duties <100 people), worked really well but just not enough especially outdoors. So the upgrade plans are in place. ENTER the Keystones Planning two cabs with B&C 18TBW100-4 installed.
But my question is where are you guys putting your handles? I want them flush mounted like this Parts Express Steel Bar Speaker Cabinet Handle , but obviously that will mean cutting in the walls and protruding into the cavity. Seems it cant be done on the sides. Next option is two on top and two on bottom. How will this effect the cabinets acoustic properties? Whats your recommendation? thanks
Daneo,
1) I did not install handles on the original Keystones, as none were needed to put a two-wheel cart under the back, tip, and roll into position.
2)The cross sectional area of those handles won't have much effect on the frequency response or sensitivity if placed along the center line front to back.
3)I recommend avoiding transportation or venues that require lifting subs ;^)
Art
Hi guys, I'm planning my first Keystone build
Planning two cabs with B&C 18TBW100-4 installed.
But my question is where are you guys putting your handles? I want them flush mounted like this Parts Express Steel Bar Speaker Cabinet Handle , but obviously that will mean cutting in the walls and protruding into the cavity. Seems it cant be done on the sides. Next option is two on top and two on bottom. How will this effect the cabinets acoustic properties? Whats your recommendation? thanks
I have four of these if you want them. Just pay shipping from Florida
Message me
Art, Thanks for your reply. Didn't think I'd get a reply from the master designer himself 
I think your right... moving/carrying them would be a PIA and a trolley would be sufficient anyway. I don't do regular gigs so I'm only talking a hand full times a year. So I may just leave them out now.
Carlthess40, Thanks for offer. Id imagine shipping would be pretty $$ to Australia. Besides, this is DIY, and I kinda think building them yourself is half the fun (certainly not economical though)
I think your right... moving/carrying them would be a PIA and a trolley would be sufficient anyway. I don't do regular gigs so I'm only talking a hand full times a year. So I may just leave them out now.
Carlthess40, Thanks for offer. Id imagine shipping would be pretty $$ to Australia. Besides, this is DIY, and I kinda think building them yourself is half the fun (certainly not economical though)
So I have been drawing up the keystone in CAD, but because i'm working with 18mm wood thickness and I can't use Arts exact measurements as the 3/4in = 19mm. Yes that seems minimal but that equates to changes in the horn heights that may or may not be significant (I don't know). I have attached an image to try to show it. But I have included some possible changes in magenta by shifting panel H 4mm closer to the driver to match Art's original S1.
Does this make sense? Am I worried about nothing? Will it make any real change to the actual sound?
regards Dane
Does this make sense? Am I worried about nothing? Will it make any real change to the actual sound?
regards Dane
Attachments
Changes of a mm won't affect output, though I don't understand why you would change the panel H length- Hornresp inputs were approximations of "as built", done after the cabinet was finished.
I haven't changed the length of H. It the same 31' or 787mm. I'm actually trying to build as close to your as-built measurements as possible. But I cant do it exactly as my material is not 3/4 (19mm), but actually 18mm.
So my internal volume is slightly larger (2mm) and then if i add the internal panels, I get a 4mm difference.
But as you mentioned it's probably going to make very little difference to the output. Think I might be just splitting hairs.
Hi Art,
It's been many moons since I last checked in...
I see the "B-low" didn't exactly test as simulated, but still looks Fantastic for my needs! Yes! ..
I looked through the OP, and through many pages of this thread, but didn't see any plans for B-low construction. Is this something I need to purchase? (if so, I'd have no reservations doing so...)
Or if, as usual, I've just glossed over something?
Thanks in advance, this design is truly something special...
In short, can anyone link to the plans for the B-Low Keystone?
Cheers,
-Steve..
It's been many moons since I last checked in...
I see the "B-low" didn't exactly test as simulated, but still looks Fantastic for my needs! Yes! ..
I looked through the OP, and through many pages of this thread, but didn't see any plans for B-low construction. Is this something I need to purchase? (if so, I'd have no reservations doing so...)
Or if, as usual, I've just glossed over something?
Thanks in advance, this design is truly something special...
In short, can anyone link to the plans for the B-Low Keystone?
Cheers,
-Steve..
Steve,
As stated in the OP, reports using a B&C18TBW100-4 driver are in post #1135. Photos and the response curves with the B&C18TBW100-4 and the 15” Dayton PA385S-8 and a "step down" cover plate are in post #1167.
As the "B-low" did not appear to do better than the previous design regarding low frequency output, I have not included plans for it, as other designs such as Josh Ricci's "Othhorn" appear to be better if response below 35 Hz is of high priority.
Art
My 2x Keystones with BC18TBW100-4's build has finally completed. Woohoo
Yet to do a full noise test, but at an excessive volume inside a residential house I'm very pleased. Thank you Art, and others who have helped out in this thread.
No I didn't end up putting handles on, but heck they are heavy Haha (I was warned)
My previous "big" diy sub is on the right in pic
I do however have a question regarding setting "limiters" for these drivers (I know you have posted some recommendations in post#1) But I dont have a fancy amp with dsp, I only have a XR18 dig mixer, DBX Driverack 260 and two old school Samson SX2400 Amplifier rated at 1500w bridged. I'm thinking these drivers will take everything these amps could give it anyway. So apart from a 30hz HPF, is it worth looking into the DBX's peak limiters?
regards Dane
Yet to do a full noise test, but at an excessive volume inside a residential house I'm very pleased.
Thank you Art, and others who have helped out in this thread. No I didn't end up putting handles on, but heck they are heavy Haha (I was warned)
My previous "big" diy sub is on the right in pic
I do however have a question regarding setting "limiters" for these drivers (I know you have posted some recommendations in post#1) But I dont have a fancy amp with dsp, I only have a XR18 dig mixer, DBX Driverack 260 and two old school Samson SX2400 Amplifier rated at 1500w bridged. I'm thinking these drivers will take everything these amps could give it anyway. So apart from a 30hz HPF, is it worth looking into the DBX's peak limiters?
regards Dane
Attachments
Dane,
The drivers coils can be burnt with 1500 watts of sustained power, so a "peak" limiter won't provide protection from that.
Although the DBX Driverack 260 peak limiters won't protect the drivers from too much average levels, it may sound better than the amp sounds when clipping, so worth comparing. The limiter lights may be more visible to you than the amp, so can also give you a better idea of when they run out of headroom.
Have fun!
Art
Thanks BP1Fanatic. It took longer than expected but I did dry/pre-screw assemble it all before re-assembling it with glue. And when your only cutting with a circular saw, tape and level, it takes longer.
Actually I made one epic fail by cutting the Key out the first go totally wrong angle. Had to buy another whole sheet to replace that 1 panel But I did find the culprit for the mistake (see pic)
Art, I'm not sure how close to 1500w RMS my amps will really output. I think probably closer to 1000w, but that is still too much if sustained. I will mostly be playing Rock/Metal, so a little less demanding then EDM.
Is it possible to set approx limits by ear? I mean listen until it starts to sound a bit distorted, then back it off a little?
The DR260 does have a RMS limiter and a Peak Stop limiter, but from what I have read it aint that good. Without proper RMS limiters I'm kinda guessing anyway I suppose.
Dane
Actually I made one epic fail by cutting the Key out the first go totally wrong angle.
Had to buy another whole sheet to replace that 1 panel But I did find the culprit for the mistake (see pic)Art, I'm not sure how close to 1500w RMS my amps will really output. I think probably closer to 1000w, but that is still too much if sustained. I will mostly be playing Rock/Metal, so a little less demanding then EDM.
Is it possible to set approx limits by ear? I mean listen until it starts to sound a bit distorted, then back it off a little?
The DR260 does have a RMS limiter and a Peak Stop limiter, but from what I have read it aint that good. Without proper RMS limiters I'm kinda guessing anyway I suppose.
Dane
