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Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
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Old 11th May 2015, 09:26 PM   #511
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientific View Post
The DSL spec for the TH118 speaks of sensitivity as being 108 dbspl at 1m. If that means 2.83 volts into a 4 ohm load, then I can assume the SPL is still 105 dbspl for 8 ohms.
I believe the 1M SPL rating is based on measurements that were done at 10M.

I also believe that the assumption was made that the SPL would drop off at a specific rate as a mike is moved from 1M to 10M away.

If that assumption is pessimistic, then the calculated performance @1M would be optimistic .
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Old 12th May 2015, 01:25 AM   #512
Scientific is offline Scientific  Dominica
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Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
IIRC Ivan took the measurement for the TH118 at DSL and they do not have a very big lot.
Can you be more specific. What did he get? What were the measurements?
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Old 12th May 2015, 03:15 AM   #513
djlivex is offline djlivex  United States
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Ok I will be building this with PD 184 I don't need SW115 output, thanks weltersys!
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Old 12th May 2015, 03:23 AM   #514
Scientific is offline Scientific  Dominica
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
1) Probably quite similar, if measured the same.
I was hoping by now there would be some definite measurements available.

Quote:
2) Peak response in calculated manufacturer's specs don't consider Xmax, the 130 dB I quoted is at Xmax.
With what wattage was the speaker being fed ? If it was with 2,500 watts, then this appears to work back to less than 97 db for 1 watt/1m.

Quote:
Here is a comparison of a DSL TH118 to an EAW SB1000z:
https://soundforums.net/threads/6793-TH118vsSB1000z
.

This is great stuff. I have heard the SB1000s so I can almost imagine from the chart how the TH118 will sound. A comparison like this between a DSL TH118 and a Keystone would be extremely useful to me. I have heard the DSL TH115 s, nice and punchy and thick at the same time.

Quote:
David Gunness, former designer at EV and EAW, now with Fulcrum Acoustics has explanations of the specs "game" in post #18 on 4/10/14:

https://soundforums.net/threads/9905...or-Stick-mains
. Great stuff.


Quote:
The four 22.5 x 22.5 x 26.5 dual Lab 12 (fB 36 Hz) driven by a pair of Crest CA-9 amplifiers put out 4 dB less at 60 Hz, but 2 dB more at 40 Hz than the eight 650P, using a small fraction of the power, the whole PA was run off two 20 Amp 120 volt circuits.
.

This is almost unbelievable when rated against Meyers reputation for bass, but I guess it is what it is.

Which would you say gives the best punch around 45Hz to 60 Hz, a Keystone, a Th18 or an Othorn?
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:14 AM   #515
sine143 is offline sine143  United States
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scientific, there is most definitely a direct comparison between the keystone and the th18 in this thread. with measurements.

they are very similar in response shape and sensitivity. subjective analysis by member PASC states that he enjoyed his keystone more than his XOC1 TH18 (which, is not exactly a danley th118), due to "better cone control" (again, a subjective analysis)
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:18 AM   #516
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientific View Post
Can you be more specific. What did he get? What were the measurements?
The measurements that appear in the datasheet.
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Old 12th May 2015, 06:25 PM   #517
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientific View Post
1)I was hoping by now there would be some definite measurements available.
2)With what wattage was the speaker being fed ? If it was with 2,500 watts, then this appears to work back to less than 97 db for 1 watt/1m.
3) A comparison like this between a DSL TH118 and a Keystone would be extremely useful to me.
4)This is almost unbelievable when rated against Meyers reputation for bass, but I guess it is what it is.
5)Which would you say gives the best punch around 45Hz to 60 Hz, a Keystone, a Th18 or an Othorn?
1) I have never seen a DSL TH118 in New Mexico, so have not been able to compare the two. I have sold my Keystone/Paraline system to a sound company in Colorado, so no longer could make a direct comparison.
2) According to Hornresp, 82volts (about 1681 watts) results in 15mm excursion with the BC18SW115-4 in the Keystone. That seem pretty close to PASC's and my measured response using "normal" SPL meters.
3) DIY ;^).
4) Frankly, the side by side comparison was a surprise to me, but it was real world.
5) Having only looked at measurements of Th18 or an Othorn, I'd expect them to be similar, with the Keystone having a bit (2 dB, IIRC) more output than the TH18 according to PASC. The Othorn goes lower, which could translate to sounding less "punchy".

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Old 12th May 2015, 08:05 PM   #518
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sine143 View Post
scientific, there is most definitely a direct comparison between the keystone and the th18 in this thread. with measurements.

they are very similar in response shape and sensitivity. subjective analysis by member PASC states that he enjoyed his keystone more than his XOC1 TH18 (which, is not exactly a danley th118), due to "better cone control" (again, a subjective analysis)
The driver is mounted vertically in the KS and horizontally in the TH18, in their normal config. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
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Old 12th May 2015, 09:13 PM   #519
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
The driver is mounted vertically in the KS and horizontally in the TH18, in their normal config. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
Brian,

I have rotated subs so the cones are vertical or horizontal on many different gigs, no difference in output before breakup occurs.

Gravity will eventually take it's toll on horizontal cones and cause them to sag, but "cone control" is determined by acoustical loading.

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Old 13th May 2015, 03:09 AM   #520
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Brian,
I have rotated subs so the cones are vertical or horizontal on many different gigs, no difference in output before breakup occurs.
In the case of the KS, wouldn't that result in the mouth facing upwards?


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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Gravity will eventually take it's toll on horizontal cones and cause them to sag, but "cone control" is determined by acoustical loading.
Good point. How different though is the loading on the driver between the KS and the TH18?

There's another possibility. Perhaps it might be due to panel flex colouring the sound. My POC3 uses the same fold at the TH18. I may be imagining things, but I've noticed a difference when it's placed on its side compared to when it's upright. I thought that might have something to do with the bottom panel not being against the ground when the sub is used on its side (of all the panels, the side panels flex / vibrate the least) . I've never tried to quantify it by measurements though. I'll try to do that this weekend.
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