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Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
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Old 30th April 2015, 06:53 AM   #491
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientific View Post
Deeper and narrower would be ideal. Even putting the exit on base instead would be great. (like putting the original cabinet to lie down). I hope someone is trying these. Anxiously waiting for the post.
Yes but that's a whole different animal.

You could go in another direction by knocking the corners off and adding wings:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 1st May 2015, 04:28 PM   #492
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi NEO Dan,

Nice work, and the Keystone drawing too. :-)

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Old 1st May 2015, 05:22 PM   #493
CRESCENDO is offline CRESCENDO  United States
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Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
I haven't tried the "V" with the Keystone, but when I tried to "V" my tapped horns in the past, it was like facing them into a corner -- it just doesn't work like FLHs. And like facing them into a corner, I felt there was less output from doing so. As we know, THs are very directional -- I'm assuming this has much to do with it.
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Old 1st May 2015, 05:43 PM   #494
Zwiller is offline Zwiller  United States
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Great job on the drawings. That 4 pack looks FIERCE!!! I run mine on the side too. Any chance you could do the extended version of the KS from your previous work? Curious if it ends up a 3 sheets.
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Old 2nd May 2015, 04:03 PM   #495
Osse is offline Osse  Sweden
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When we're into the discussion of TH vs FLH, does the same principle with a single mono stack of <100 hz bins apply to TH's as well? will there be cancellations and weird phase issues if you stack two Keystones in a non-mono(one under a top for example) setup on a small/medium sized stage, which is at the end of the day, a big part of the gigs we usually see our subs working in the DIY community.

I think the directivity of the TH's might make them work a little better for the stereo bassbin setup, but I've never used them in a live situation so I don't know how they behave.
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Old 2nd May 2015, 05:23 PM   #496
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osse View Post
1)When we're into the discussion of TH vs FLH, does the same principle with a single mono stack of <100 hz bins apply to TH's as well?
2)will there be cancellations and weird phase issues if you stack two Keystones in a non-mono(one under a top for example) setup on a small/medium sized stage?
3)I think the directivity of the TH's might make them work a little better for the stereo bassbin setup, but I've never used them in a live situation so I don't know how they behave.
Osse,

1)I am unaware of the discussion of TH vs FLH you refer to, but comparing a FLH to a TH with similar directivity would result in similar output.
2)From my experiments, a TH has similar directivity to a FLH of the same path length. Any array of cabinets where there is more than 1/4 wavelength between the acoustic centers will result in cancellations and phase issues off axis.
3)The directivity of the Keystone was apparent in the 70-100 Hz range compared to front loaded subs, but spacing between the L/R stacks and boundaries still controls the output reinforcement and cancellation nodes.

Art
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Old 4th May 2015, 10:24 AM   #497
Empee is offline Empee  Netherlands
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Default would an EVM18b work ?

Hello Art,


How would an EVM18b sound if I were to use a Keystone cabinet ?
would efficiency (SPL) be like a TL505 cab or higher ?



Cheers,


Empee
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Old 4th May 2015, 05:51 PM   #498
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Originally Posted by Empee View Post
Hello Art,

How would an EVM18b sound if I were to use a Keystone cabinet ?
would efficiency (SPL) be like a TL505 cab or higher ?
Cheers,
Empee,

Sensitivity would probably be around 4 dB more than a TL505, so it would sound louder.
The 18B has only 3.3 mm Xmax, so maximum output would be about 14 dB less than using a B&C18SW115.

Art
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Old 4th May 2015, 06:04 PM   #499
Empee is offline Empee  Netherlands
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Hi Art

I understanding a 505 Will do 120dB,
so a keystone with an EVM18b will do 124dB ?

at 200watts RMS, that isn't too bad



only, a '505 is useable 'till far in the midrange,
A keystone does 100hz ?


Cheers,

Empee
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Old 4th May 2015, 06:57 PM   #500
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empee View Post
Hi Art

1)I understanding a 505 Will do 120dB,
so a keystone with an EVM18b will do 124dB ?

at 200watts RMS, that isn't too bad


2)only, a '505 is useable 'till far in the midrange,
A keystone does 100hz ?
Empee,

1) An 18B loaded 505 can do 120 dB in the upper end, but probably would run out of excursion above Fb below 120 dB or 200 watts.
Using the B&C18SW115-4 the Keystone can do around 130 dB at 15mm of excursion at 82 volts. Cutting excursion in half drops level by 6 dB, the 18B has only 3.3 mm excursion, so would only be able to do around 117 dB in the Keystone.
You could use the Hornresp inputs from post 96 or 130 and put in the 18B parameters to get more of an idea of response, I'd expect it won't be pretty.

2)The Keystone response is usable to around 160 Hz, but 100 Hz is a better crossover point for subs located on the ground.

Art
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