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Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
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Old 30th April 2021, 03:59 PM   #1411
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Originally Posted by Singtall View Post
I played music at high volume for about an hour and the tops never moved.

For the way other sound men like to eq their system I would say I need to double the subs per side, or try more power. Personally, I like to run a system fairly flat.
A 6dB power increase in doubles excursion, which with asymmetrical waveforms (like kick drum..) may increase "shake" to the point where a mat may not stop the top cabinet movement.

The 6dB increase in power the NU3000 will deliver bridged mono is about equal to running a pair of subs at 1/4 the power.

With 3000 watts peak power, a single BC18TBW100-4 Keystone should have similar output to a pair of front loaded 12" JBL AM4212/85 (each driven with 800 watts peak) from 70-100 Hz, so if you like flat dynamic response capability, you should be good to go after adding a second bridged NU3000.

If you want to add a 6dB low frequency "haystack" below 100 Hz, at full output of the tops, double your subs and amplifiers

Art
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Old 30th April 2021, 09:46 PM   #1412
Singtall is offline Singtall  United States
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For sure I'm going to add another amp for my other sub that I'm currently building. It's very possibly that I built 2 more cabs in the future. Gonna see what a pair will do first. I tend to run a fairly compressed mix compared to other sound men. I have a studio background so that's the sound I shoot for. I've been told that my live mixes sound like a CD, so when I'm forced to mix on bass heavy systems I end up cutting a lot of bottom out of everything.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 03:09 AM   #1413
Singtall is offline Singtall  United States
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I have to remember to attach the G board so that I can put screws into it instead of having to clamp it down and wait to finish the cabinet later.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 03:11 AM   #1414
Singtall is offline Singtall  United States
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G board clamped on. Gonna wait a couple days to finish.... Gotta work out of town. This cabinet is coming along much easier than the first one.
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Old 5th May 2021, 10:09 PM   #1415
Singtall is offline Singtall  United States
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Just about done with the second cabinet. Still a little tricky, but I got it done. Filled all the holes with Bondo now I just need to sand and put on the duratex. Got another power amp coming in Friday so I can't wait to test these things out with full power.
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Old 8th May 2021, 07:08 PM   #1416
Singtall is offline Singtall  United States
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All done with the second box and I have the other 3000 watt amp in stock. My first gig with it will be outdoors at a festival where they predict 800-1000 people watching. so i have a question:

If I'm using the Keystone subs plus some standard 2-18" subs how much delay should i use on the direct radiating subs?

I'm acquiring 2 carvin trx 2-18" subs that really put out a lot of bass, so i think that between those and the keystones i should be good to go.
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Old 8th May 2021, 10:22 PM   #1417
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Originally Posted by Singtall View Post
If I'm using the Keystone subs plus some standard 2-18" subs how much delay should i use on the direct radiating subs?
Using IIR filters and delay, you won't be able to phase/time align between the two types of subs over their entire pass band (30 to around 80-100Hz) regardless of how the BR subs are delayed, but as a rough guestimate, 5 to 9ms should get the upper phase response close.
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Old 9th May 2021, 12:19 AM   #1418
Singtall is offline Singtall  United States
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I've got a drive rack pa 2 and a behringer x32 mixer to work with and that's about it.

The gig is outdoors on a the back of a 18 wheeler truck bed. My first thought was to put both keystones laying down on the ground in front of the trailer and put the other subs and top cabinets on either side of the stage. I was hoping the distance would help with the delay issues.

I'm gonna have to take this stuff outside this week and test it. Decisions will be made. I'll either be building 2 more keystones or building another box for those speakers. Can't have a total mismatch of pa. I didn't plan on having these other speakers but it worked out good on this trade I'm doing. I'll end up giving up my JBL tops to get 6 carvin tcs210's and 2 carvin trx3212 subs with more power amps. Of course I'm gonna have to fly my tops and pay for all labor and materials to make it happen.
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Old 9th May 2021, 06:26 PM   #1419
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Someone told me that the keystone subs compare favorably to the Danley XL 18" subs. I haven't heard the Danley subs but I see that the box size is pretty close. Anybody care to comment on how far off they are?
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Old 9th May 2021, 08:18 PM   #1420
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singtall View Post
The gig is outdoors on a the back of a 18 wheeler truck bed. My first thought was to put both keystones laying down on the ground in front of the trailer and put the other subs and top cabinets on either side of the stage.

I'll end up giving up my JBL tops to get 6 carvin tcs210's and 2 carvin trx3212 subs with more power amps.
Someone told me that the keystone subs compare favorably to the Danley XL 18" subs. I haven't heard the Danley subs but I see that the box size is pretty close. Anybody care to comment on how far off they are?
The DSL TH118XL impedance/excursion minimas are about 4Hz lower than the Keystone, it appears to have around 3-4dB more output at 30 Hz, though similar above.

After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I have of late been thinking that my sensitivity rating for the Keystone is understated by 3 to 6dB.

Couldn't find any listing for dual 18" Carvin "trx3212" subs.

The Carvin dual 18" TRx2218B use 800w 5.5mm Xmax drivers.
The Carvin dual 18" TRx3218 spec sheet lists 1000w 9.75mm Xmax drivers.

I'd expect either of those of those dual 18" subs to have similar sensitivity as your BC 18TBW100-4 loaded Keystones.
The 18TBW100 has 12mm Xmax (14mm Xvar) so should be capable of more clean LF output than a pair of TRx2218B. One Keystone/two TRx2218B.
If you get the TRx3218, the Keystone should still have a bit more output, probably between a 2/2.4 to 2/3 ratio, two Keystone/three TRx3218.

To avoid too much bass center stage, probably better to put the subs with less output there.
Attached Images
File Type: png Carvin 18" TS parameters.png (85.3 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg BC215, TH118XL .jpg (168.8 KB, 56 views)

Last edited by weltersys; 9th May 2021 at 08:45 PM.
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