Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th December 2011, 09:23 AM   #111
salzburgsoundsystem is offline salzburgsoundsystem  Austria
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salzburg
Default And...

Is it a fair comparison - is this a particularly good tapped horn design?
It seems less capable than many 15" designs

Drivers are always better suited for one enclosure type than another... which of course means a fair test is hardly possible, unless we look at a variety of drivers and consider the average difference between efficiency and exztension in various enclosures.

There might be some that work worse in the hog scoop, but better in a tapped horn than the above example.

Regards, Ben
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2011, 09:57 AM   #112
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: amsterdam
correct ben.
it is not a fair comparison,but it gives you an ideer on how different type of boxes behave in efficientie.
i just made some qiuck sims for that reason.
__________________
one good thing about music ,when it hit you feel no pain.
so hit me with music
. hr driver db
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2011, 10:45 AM   #113
iand is offline iand  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Default Other drivers for Keystone

Has anyone looked at the Fi BTL-N218 in the Keystone?

http://tinyurl.com/cfr3zk9
BTL N2 SERIES

Most "car audio" drivers are overpriced under-engineered rubbish but this might work quite well if the T-S parameters are correct. The coil is only 3" but it's very tall (~72mm?) in a very deep gap (~32mm?) so the 2000Wrms power handling should be realistic, especially given the big heatsink, and the total flux from two big slab neo magnets means BL/sqrt(Re) is higher than even the NLW9600.

It certainly won't run out or travel with any sensible size amp given that Xmax=28mm...

(though I'm not convinced that the quoted BL and efficiency are with the long-coil option)
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2011, 11:22 AM   #114
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Brazil
Hi!

Firstly, we like the sound that comes out of the Keystone very much.

The cone control despite power applied is a good surprise as all THs always suffer from this enemy at the limits, needing a more compression at the throat and only a bit of drivers are adequate; that's what I notice making several boxes for 12, 15 and now 18 drivers.
THs sound is ready, needing no eq, but SPL at the limit suffer from power compression.

But in Brazil, without the limits of North America, and Europe limits (to 105dBs at audience, if I'm not wrong), the desk operators go to numbers like 120/130dBs peaks at the mixing house, 30, 40, 50 m from PA (they maybe are dumb or have severe audition problems), same at delaying beside 120dBs at stage, same with musicians in great number...

The energy was adequate.
Certainly not the best one, Machine amp is a Class AB+H - 2 ohms; refer complete pdf stored at Brazilian professional sound forum, Audiolist typing code which appears down/middle showing complete parts.

Machine amplificadores PSL 6400 7400 9400 - [Audio List]

Not the better but I think this amp has balls to keep old school numbers, not this thing os 33ms (to me a fraction of a second = peak power, like which the one's I call PMPO things, when you put a shower resistance in barrel full of water and play a senoid , still round at oscilloscope, thru it.
Regards,
__________________
PASC
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2012, 12:18 AM   #115
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Brazil
Hi Art!
The work continues.
Today I was taking another measurements of TH18, also loaded with the 18Sound 18NLW9600, at same place we tested the Keystone, same equipment,Ö
And than Pequeno has picked up whatís wrong.
The decibelimeter 9V battery, bought at some weeks ago, Rayovac alkaline has only 7.5V at the multimeter.
Measured the TH18 Xoc1 style and it stops at 117dBs using similar power as input.
Changed the drained battery for one with full 9V and goes to 126.2 peak holder from 38 ~ 97Hz band, also with very good hi-fi sound, and a bit better defined says my friend who also plays bass guitar.
The cone control IMO, wasnít as good as in the Keystone, which sound I preferred, maybe because Iíve owned a DJ PA in past, where lows are more present than at live music that my friend is more used to.
http://img2.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...c941e5ee24.jpg
http://img1.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...4852bd39e8.jpg
As it shows a # of less 9.9dBs before changing the battery, adding this to 118.9 red when measured Keystone TH the correct number will be around 128.8dBs, which is a lot thru the band played and with excellent cone control for a TH, only owned by the TH12 loaded with B&C 12PS100 up to date tests.

Sorry for inconvenience.
Regards,
__________________
PASC
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2012, 03:08 PM   #116
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
diyAudio Member
 
weltersys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by PASC View Post
Hi Art!

As it shows a # of less 9.9dBs before changing the battery, adding this to 118.9 red when measured Keystone TH the correct number will be around 128.8dBs, which is a lot thru the band played and with excellent cone control for a TH, only owned by the TH12 loaded with B&C 12PS100 up to date tests.

Sorry for inconvenience.
Regards,
That seems more in line with my outdoor measurements, a pair of Keystones can do around 105 dB at 32 meters each powered by a Crest CA-9.
Thanks for the update, what distance was the measurement done at?

Art
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2012, 03:28 PM   #117
HassanZia is offline HassanZia  Pakistan
diyAudio Member
 
HassanZia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rawalpindi
Question Need Help!

Hey!
I have a 8" 50W woofer with 8ohm impedance n i've build a box with 17.6" height, 13.5" width and 13" base. I used chipboard of 2cm thickness. I wanna know the port size. Currently I've made a port of 1" height and 1.2" gap from the back. It's not L port just one piece of 10.7" x 11.7". I'm not satisfied with it coz it doesn't sounds good n no air comes out either but when i remove the tweeter, that hole of 2.5" diameter act as a good port but i dnt want round port i want square port as i build.
If sm1 can help me with this plz pvt me or reply here coz im new to this site n dnt know around.
Plz I really need help!

Peace!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2012, 03:32 PM   #118
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Brazil
Hi Art!

Decibel meter at 100cm from the mouth on the ground(concrete) over a carpet.
Comparing with TH18 Xoc1 style, cone control is impressive.

Regards,
__________________
PASC

Last edited by PASC; 3rd January 2012 at 03:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2012, 03:48 PM   #119
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
diyAudio Member
 
weltersys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by PASC View Post
Hi Art!

Decibel meter at 100cm from the mouth on the ground(concrete) over a carpet.
Comparing with TH18 Xoc1 style, cone control is impressive.

Regards,
Yes, there is one cone control detail employed in the DSL TH-118 missing from the Xoc1 TH18.

I found it interesting how many have tried additional restriction in front of the cones on TH to control excursion, I tried that on the Keystone and found less output and no better cone control.

It would be interesting to compare the two with sine waves and measure the excursion and compare those figures to mine loaded with the BC18SW115-4.
I suspect the 18Sound 18NLW9600 suspension has a bit less excursion control down low.

Have you used the Keystones on any shows yet?

Art
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2012, 05:26 PM   #120
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Brazil
Hi Art!

Made only one Keystone and one TH18 Xoc1 till now to calm down my curiosity...
Will not use them these way. My time carrying two times a day a cargo of 12 modified Whorns, etc, etc, etc to complete PA is gone...

The Keystone (very good speaker) could be the substitute of my HT Subwoofer, where 4 modified Edgar showhorns corner loaded with 15", playing only 32W (the four sumed at maximum 32W), accompaining my TL three way LA 8x6", 8xconical paper cone tweeters, and 2 Selenium (good times when they make better loudspeakers) TSA10 Alnico Tweeters good till 22Khz (EV style horns loaded on Klipsh), each side as front mains in my dedicated Sound/Video room...
Will compare in future.

But returning to the subject reversing 105dBs at 32M.

Two speakers drived by CA-9 bridged (2000W at 4 ohms load) without losses should give a sensivity of around 96.1dBs of each one.

Let's see:
1800W = 137; 900W = 134; 450 = 131; ... ; 1,76W = 107; 0,88W 104dBs (could find Re of 4 ohm version). 1W ~ 104.55dBs

Now if we compare these numbers like with 137dBs claims (at AES Pe) we notice a difference of 104.55 from 96.1 = + 8.45dBs;

+8.45dBs implies in augment Pe by 7W to equal 1W or SEVEN times more power at Pe limit of 1800W = 12,600W to equal the claimed AES...

Worked for some years with automotive SPL championship and think that know something about what comes out in dB when power increases.

So my blablabla here is only valid if my homework is correct and due I'm getting older.
Also admiring the collaborative work that goes thru here at DIY.
Thanks for all who are sharing their findings.

Regards,
__________________
PASC
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch SpeakersHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ne 5532 15+15 or 18+18 east electronics Solid State 3 26th January 2010 12:43 PM
Which amp for speakers with a Fountek Neo Pro 5i and 12 inch woofer boidos Pass Labs 1 24th June 2009 09:10 AM
Two 10"inch and two 12" inch subwoofers and what to do?? Gentle1Man Subwoofers 25 13th March 2008 09:00 AM
Two 8 inch usher vs one 12 inch M&K qguy Multi-Way 0 25th October 2006 10:54 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki