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Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
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Old 24th December 2011, 03:10 PM   #101
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: .
Quote:
Originally Posted by PASC View Post
Hi!
I'm making one.

Need to round opening both sides and attach braces to the front

Will try the 18Sound 18NLW9600 in it (have an offer of local dealer).
Real measurements would be nice. I know you've built several other DIYAudio designs. A side to side comparison with some of these other designs would be appreciated.
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Old 26th December 2011, 11:29 PM   #102
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Brazil
Hi!

Building continues...
Put casters on the back to help move/transport this big box.

http://img4.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...a4a95f6822.jpg

the drivers arrived

http://img2.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...355a2d6562.jpg

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.a...roduct&pid=288

Now need longer screws to fix the 18 Sound 18NLW9600 to the t-nuts (height of thedriver 2.3cm + wood/t-nuts 2.2cm).
The driver back is nearly in touch with the slot/ and front port...

http://img3.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...e86fff2b43.jpg

Regards,
__________________
PASC

Last edited by PASC; 26th December 2011 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 26th December 2011, 11:42 PM   #103
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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NICE!
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Dan
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Old 27th December 2011, 02:38 AM   #104
BP1Fanatic is offline BP1Fanatic  United States
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+1!
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Old 27th December 2011, 09:37 AM   #105
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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the 9600 sims better then the 9000 in the keystone .)

good job in creating minor quake's
__________________
one good thing about music ,when it hit you feel no pain.
so hit me with music
. hr driver db

Last edited by epa; 27th December 2011 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 28th December 2011, 01:58 AM   #106
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Brazil
Hi!
Today, after finally putting things toghether, fixing driver and front panel, and with a friends help, loaning his warehouse, Proel desk, crossprocessor(192KHz), PSL 9400 amplifier, 30A energy, 220V, we made some indoor tests (it’s a big factory building, like a Gym). Shorter distance to a wall was around 8m.
To measure I have the Berry DSPRTA 8024, and ECM8000 mic, and a decibelimiter with peak holder C weighted, at high position, taking measurements at 2m for curves, and at 2 and 1 m for peak dBs.
PSL 9400
The 18Sound 18NLW9600 8ohms is a Power angry driver (like B&C 18SW115 8ohms owned by my friend that stated it).
The amplifier can deliver about 2110wrms at 8 ohms loading with clipping limit at +4dBs.
We used playback of pink noise and music, allways flat.
We played the signal up to when the clip limit led barely flashes, returning a bit the potenciometer; the driver hardly moves a cm (0.5 ~ 0.5cm) with pink noise and like this with music.
The sound is like hi-fi and taste to our ears is very good.
See the not so good pictures I take from the RTA:
20 ~ 130 Hz LR24 pink noise
http://img6.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...9b0e6ea6ec.jpg
20 ~ 200Hz LR24
http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...c3e6408878.jpg
and were we agreed was a good band to use it 25 ~ 96Hz LR24
http://img2.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...f7e345f08c.jpg
As stated above the sound is like hi-fi, but the SPL is about dissapointed for this kind of power applied, when 118,9dBs,despite raising income till clip limit flashes was what we read as peak (I’m used to hear hog scoop with 18LW1400 with up to 600Wrms applied, with a similar good sound, but with higher SPL).
As stated before, local dealer makes an offer of 4 drivers, at a reasonable price and so I invested minus than 2 sheets of 19mm plywood…
So I’m calculating if it’s a good buy, as I need a big amp to make the drivers sing, when my 3000wrms 4ohms bridged amps are insufficient.

Regards,
__________________
PASC

Last edited by PASC; 28th December 2011 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 28th December 2011, 02:50 AM   #107
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by PASC View Post
Hi!
Today, after finally putting things toghether, fixing driver and front panel, and with a friends help, loaning his warehouse, Proel desk, crossprocessor(192KHz), PSL 9400 amplifier, 30A energy, 220V, we made some indoor tests (it’s a big factory building, like a Gym). Shorter distance to a wall was around 8m.
To measure I have the Berry DSPRTA 8024, and ECM8000 mic, and a decibelimiter with peak holder C weighted, at high position, taking measurements at 2m for curves, and at 2 and 1 m for peak dBs.
PSL 9400
The 18Sound 18NLW9600 8ohms is a Power angry driver (like B&C 18SW115 8ohms owned by my friend that stated it).
The amplifier can deliver about 2110wrms at 8 ohms loading with clipping limit at +4dBs.
We used playback of pink noise and music, allways flat.
We played the signal up to when the clip limit led barely flashes, returning a bit the potenciometer; the driver hardly moves a cm (0.5 ~ 0.5cm) with pink noise and like this with music.
The sound is like hi-fi and taste to our ears is very good.
See the not so good pictures I take from the RTA:
20 ~ 130 Hz LR24 pink noise
http://img6.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...9b0e6ea6ec.jpg
20 ~ 200Hz LR24
http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...c3e6408878.jpg
and were we agreed was a good band to use it 25 ~ 96Hz LR24
http://img2.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...f7e345f08c.jpg
As stated above the sound is like hi-fi, but the SPL is about dissapointed for this kind of power applied, when 118,9dBs,despite raising income till clip limit flashes was what we read as peak (I’m used to hear hog scoop with 18LW1400 with up to 600Wrms applied, with a similar good sound, but with higher SPL).
As stated before, local dealer makes an offer of 4 drivers, at a reasonable price and so I invested minus than 2 sheets of 19mm plywood…
So I’m calculating if it’s a good buy, as I need a big amp to make the drivers sing, when my 3000wrms 4ohms bridged amps are insufficient.

Regards,
Pasc,
Interesting to hear your report!

If the 18Sound 18NLW9600 cone is only moving 10 MM peak to peak, it is only being tickled, Xmax is around 15mm, which is 30mm peak to peak.
Takes about 6 dB increase in level to double excursion.

The amp you are using may not be “delivering the goods”, low frequency energy may be causing current limiting or something. Did you try using a 25-30 Hz HPF ?

What is the size of the ”hog scoop”?

How much louder is the hog scoop than the Keystone with the same voltage applied?

Art
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Old 28th December 2011, 05:30 AM   #108
salzburgsoundsystem is offline salzburgsoundsystem  Austria
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salzburg
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
What is the size of the ”hog scoop”?

How much louder is the hog scoop than the Keystone with the same voltage applied?

Art
Here you go!

Regards, Ben

The hog scoop is 950mm x 986mm x 636mm

The hornresp numbers:
s1=750
con=112.8
s2=1062
con=42
s3=1770
con=51
s4=2544
con=47
s5=5700
vrc=0
lrc=0
fr=0
tal=0
vtc=49456
atc=86
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Old 28th December 2011, 08:16 AM   #109
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: amsterdam
scoops are verry efficient,and big.
i found an old comparison i made a while ago,i think it was with gaus 18" driver.Click the image to open in full size.

hog scoop
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
__________________
one good thing about music ,when it hit you feel no pain.
so hit me with music
. hr driver db

Last edited by epa; 28th December 2011 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 28th December 2011, 09:19 AM   #110
salzburgsoundsystem is offline salzburgsoundsystem  Austria
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Salzburg
Default sensitivity vs max output

It would be very interesting to see how the maximum output compares for these designs.

I assume they all reach xmax at different power and output levels.

Regards, Ben
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