Cool build and welcome. Feels good to inspire othersWhat do you think it
sounds like? I mean you made your own horn since the drivers and expansion
are different. Was the folding easy to build?
it was my first tapped horn build, and it was a little tricky to build
the performance is very good, it produces a lot of very low bass, enough to rattle everything in the room at half volume.
i havent spent much time listening to it yet (maybe 1 hour) so i cant give a very accurate review.
but im very happy so far, its doing what i wanted, lots of very low bass, loud, portable on batteries
Looks good 60!
I've been eyeballing the original design with the two 12" GTOs--but with a twist (of course) Same drivers but a odd-ball wacko concept that tickles the back of the cranium. I'm half nuts but the other half yearns to learn horn response since I'm going past left field with this one. Google indicates a zero chance that somebody has build the tapped with a twist--perfect, it is more fun that way.
Good to see you built a tapped horn though--you beat me! My excuse is being side tracked with a pair of 2-way vertical line arrays--120 drivers and a Roto-Zip (nothing zippy about it) Throw in a 2 month heat wave and it slows me down. Building another crossover tomorrow, then the array project goes into the garage.
The arrays NEED a subwoofer-- EQ as a last resort--my prototype sub is a Logitech 10" (Tangband) so I'll hop in bed with Horn Response and throw something together tuned at 25Hz. If it works, ebay another Tangband 10" and build a second one. Did I mention vertical line arrays were loud?
Since your horn is larger than it needs to be, it should be interesting to get the final specs on the beast. I tend to build things a bit "big" but always have the option to add more braces to take up space...the Q on my line arrays ended up around 0.85 which is fine, more "reasons" to build tapped horns.
I gotta get into gear, 60 is ahead and my arrays go final tomorrow so the bass race continues. Any words of advice to first time tapped horn builders?
I've been eyeballing the original design with the two 12" GTOs--but with a twist (of course) Same drivers but a odd-ball wacko concept that tickles the back of the cranium. I'm half nuts but the other half yearns to learn horn response since I'm going past left field with this one. Google indicates a zero chance that somebody has build the tapped with a twist--perfect, it is more fun that way.
Good to see you built a tapped horn though--you beat me!
My excuse is being side tracked with a pair of 2-way vertical line arrays--120 drivers and a Roto-Zip (nothing zippy about it) Throw in a 2 month heat wave and it slows me down. Building another crossover tomorrow, then the array project goes into the garage. The arrays NEED a subwoofer-- EQ as a last resort--my prototype sub is a Logitech 10" (Tangband) so I'll hop in bed with Horn Response and throw something together tuned at 25Hz. If it works, ebay another Tangband 10" and build a second one. Did I mention vertical line arrays were loud?
Since your horn is larger than it needs to be, it should be interesting to get the final specs on the beast. I tend to build things a bit "big" but always have the option to add more braces to take up space...the Q on my line arrays ended up around 0.85 which is fine, more "reasons" to build tapped horns.
I gotta get into gear, 60 is ahead and my arrays go final tomorrow so the bass race continues. Any words of advice to first time tapped horn builders?
yes,
when you lay your first piece of wood down and start marking it for the internal panels,
be sure to mark the 3/4 inch all the way around the outside of that board first,
i spent 40 minutes marking out 3/4 of my build (very neatly) only to realize later that i was measuring the internal panels from the edge of my board not the inside edge of the first panel (which is 3/4 inch further in, all the way around)
took me 10 minutes scratching my head and wondering why things were so far off to realize my mistake, had to start from the beginning on the other side of my board = almost an hour wasted
i have a rotozip, its ok for drywall but not wood, hole saw or jigsaw ftmfw.
lesson learned.
yes,
be sure to mark the 3/4 inch all the way around the outside of that board first,
i spent 40 minutes marking out 3/4 of my build (very neatly) only to realize later that i was measuring the internal panels from the edge of my board not the inside edge of the first panel (which is 3/4 inch further in, all the way around)
took me 10 minutes scratching my head and wondering why things were so far off to realize my mistake, had to start from the beginning on the other side of my board = almost an hour wasted
i have a rotozip, its ok for drywall but not wood, hole saw or jigsaw ftmfw.
lesson learned.
I was planning on making a cardboard template--cut out all the cardboard and lay it on the plywood sheet. Templates have always helped me save time when working with multiple angles so I'll run with that.
Don't want to think how many hours it took to cut 120 holes in 3/4" with the Roto-Slow though... only destroyed one bit so I have the touch.
My plan is to build a horn with a 10" I have laying around, make mistakes...learn a few things then blow the bucks for what I really want.
Thanks 60 but...
My DeWalt 36V drill shears off Craftsmen bit holders (and cuts my fingers open from flying metal shards) I stay away from pot metal stuff. I used a carbide tipped 1" hole saw for the tweeter array holes then Roto Zipped the correct sized hole for the tweeter since it did not follow traditional sizes. 1.15 inch holes for the top 3/8ths of wood to fit the tweet frame then the bottom 3/8ths is stepped to 1" to add strength to the "bridge" of wood so I can pack them in tight. Threw a Dremel sanding drum on the Roto for the final fitting of each tweeter (96 tweeters total)
All done and not one "bridge" cracked between the tweets so all is good. Granted, I'm not in the desert anymore driving 3" long wood screws into 2x4s without pilot holes, but I still abide by triple over design and extensive idiot-proofing. When pushing the limits of my skill sets, it is always nice to know the tools, accessories and hardware are better than me--at least I don't have to worry about those failing.
Now to getting working on that sub....
My DeWalt 36V drill shears off Craftsmen bit holders (and cuts my fingers open from flying metal shards) I stay away from pot metal stuff. I used a carbide tipped 1" hole saw for the tweeter array holes then Roto Zipped the correct sized hole for the tweeter since it did not follow traditional sizes. 1.15 inch holes for the top 3/8ths of wood to fit the tweet frame then the bottom 3/8ths is stepped to 1" to add strength to the "bridge" of wood so I can pack them in tight. Threw a Dremel sanding drum on the Roto for the final fitting of each tweeter (96 tweeters total)
All done and not one "bridge" cracked between the tweets so all is good. Granted, I'm not in the desert anymore driving 3" long wood screws into 2x4s without pilot holes, but I still abide by triple over design and extensive idiot-proofing. When pushing the limits of my skill sets, it is always nice to know the tools, accessories and hardware are better than me--at least I don't have to worry about those failing.
Now to getting working on that sub....
Hate to do a little hijack here, but 96 tweeters in what?
I'm building an array setup and looking for ideas and thoughts from those who have gone before.
Also have two of these tangband woofers, you running this in stereo or just both channels feeding it and a single enclosure?
Thanks,
Drew.
I'm building an array setup and looking for ideas and thoughts from those who have gone before.
Also have two of these tangband woofers, you running this in stereo or just both channels feeding it and a single enclosure?
Thanks,
Drew.
I built a set of vertical line arrays for the garage--48 tweeters to make a 6 foot line. Not the easiest thing to cut--and not the fun part to wire but they work well in the 6 foot 2 inch tall 2-way line arrays. They fit my needs, loud, durable, low distortion, huge "sweet spot" and unique in a distinctive way. Not the brightest move to steal something unique. The "garage system" runs a 1980 Pioneer SX-3700 receiver, Pioneer professional laser disc player (with mic mixer) and those giant arrays. I live in a small town--instant bar and the locals will shoot anyone getting near their "town bar speakers/PA".
The Tangband 10" woofer is out of a Logitech 5.1 surround sound system. It's job was to live through two teen-aged boys and take the heat so the "real system" may live. Now, it's job is to live in a tapped horn subwoofer to take the load off the arrays. The real system is back in action but I needed a garage system for volume, even output and to raise some hell (I am NOT and will never be an audiophile--life is too short. A dozen people enjoying good sounding music is better than me sitting alone with a brandy snifter)
Can a 10" Tangband sub mesh well with the hell raising arrays? Only one way to find out, make some sawdust with guidance from a Horn Response program. The reason I jumped into the thread was 60 is the more "sawdust" guy instead of endless battles with theory. I've learned over the years that theory is a life sucking waste of time--only when something is built, tested and verified is when education begins.
I might be winning ugly...but as the great philosopher Charlie Sheen once said... I'm winning!
One day 60 will roll past my garage, stop in, have an ale and heap praise on me about how I can make something seriously ugly...but sound good. After all, DIY is about making something that fits your needs, your environment and your specifications... Best Buy don't sell "garage speakers".
The Tangband 10" woofer is out of a Logitech 5.1 surround sound system. It's job was to live through two teen-aged boys and take the heat so the "real system" may live. Now, it's job is to live in a tapped horn subwoofer to take the load off the arrays. The real system is back in action but I needed a garage system for volume, even output and to raise some hell (I am NOT and will never be an audiophile--life is too short. A dozen people enjoying good sounding music is better than me sitting alone with a brandy snifter)
Can a 10" Tangband sub mesh well with the hell raising arrays? Only one way to find out, make some sawdust with guidance from a Horn Response program. The reason I jumped into the thread was 60 is the more "sawdust" guy instead of endless battles with theory. I've learned over the years that theory is a life sucking waste of time--only when something is built, tested and verified is when education begins.
I might be winning ugly...but as the great philosopher Charlie Sheen once said... I'm winning!
One day 60 will roll past my garage, stop in, have an ale and heap praise on me about how I can make something seriously ugly...but sound good. After all, DIY is about making something that fits your needs, your environment and your specifications... Best Buy don't sell "garage speakers".
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im guessing no.
i bet the arrays can get insanely loud and remain clean.
1 x 10 " sub is not going to do that in my experience.
no replacement for displacement, go 15 or 18.
and i agree with you 100%, life is to short, and there are too many great songs, to get to focussed on tiny details, as long as its reasonably balanced, turn it up and enjoy
60ndown,
I've got the same Logitec sub and my needs are meager compared to 18hurts
- a sub that can be used as reinforcement for FR units, playing levels ~90 dB for the mains (most of the times below 85 dB)... so that should not count as insanely loud I hope. Any ideas on how I can make good use of the driver?
find the ts parameters use some box software, and build a box that performs the way you want it too.
or,
if your like me and 18, build a box that looks like it might work and experiment with it until it sounds right.
The question is the Tangband 10"
My plan is to learn Horn Response and adjust the cut off to around 30 Hz on the low end to get efficiency/power handling as high as possible. With an Fs of 32 Hz and 10mm of Xmax I'll trade some deep low end to get the SPLs. If I can get it to 95dB at one watt, flat at 30 Hz to 100 Hz, stuff it in a corner driven with 150 watts of clean amplification--I should be able to squeeze 116+ dB max out of the thing from 30 Hz and up. The arrays have 24 five inch woofers in a sealed box with EQ have no problems with 75 Hz!
The only way I'll know is design one and verify it with a pile of sawdust. If it balances well with the arrays, running them at 30 Hz to 75 Hz in the corner should give the hit I desire. If I need more output (and I will!) I'll find another one on ebay ($15) and build a second tapped horn for a 6dB gain and cross at 100 Hz. The Tangbands can't handle more than 150 watts with reliability so a pair of them driven at 100 watts each (and high passed at 30 Hz) should give me what I desire for the garage.
Once I learn Horn Response, start screwing around with variants--then I'll post the Logitech/Tangband 10" tapped horn project here in DIY. Initially, I wanted to build the dual 12" tapped horn but realize I needed a starter sub to learn, make mistakes and fix issues. The single 10" requires half the wood of the dual 12" so if I blow it up, I'm not out two 12" JBL subs and a pile of wood. There are hundreds of thousands of the Z5500 systems out there--knowing me, I might end up with four of them, one in each corner...
But first, back to the garage to move everything around and wire in everything--the fun part!
My plan is to learn Horn Response and adjust the cut off to around 30 Hz on the low end to get efficiency/power handling as high as possible. With an Fs of 32 Hz and 10mm of Xmax I'll trade some deep low end to get the SPLs. If I can get it to 95dB at one watt, flat at 30 Hz to 100 Hz, stuff it in a corner driven with 150 watts of clean amplification--I should be able to squeeze 116+ dB max out of the thing from 30 Hz and up. The arrays have 24 five inch woofers in a sealed box with EQ have no problems with 75 Hz!
The only way I'll know is design one and verify it with a pile of sawdust. If it balances well with the arrays, running them at 30 Hz to 75 Hz in the corner should give the hit I desire. If I need more output (and I will!) I'll find another one on ebay ($15) and build a second tapped horn for a 6dB gain and cross at 100 Hz. The Tangbands can't handle more than 150 watts with reliability so a pair of them driven at 100 watts each (and high passed at 30 Hz) should give me what I desire for the garage.
Once I learn Horn Response, start screwing around with variants--then I'll post the Logitech/Tangband 10" tapped horn project here in DIY. Initially, I wanted to build the dual 12" tapped horn but realize I needed a starter sub to learn, make mistakes and fix issues. The single 10" requires half the wood of the dual 12" so if I blow it up, I'm not out two 12" JBL subs and a pile of wood. There are hundreds of thousands of the Z5500 systems out there--knowing me, I might end up with four of them, one in each corner...
But first, back to the garage to move everything around and wire in everything--the fun part!
logitec Z5500, is that where the tb 10 comes from?
logitech Z5500 | eBay
ill keep my eyes open for a $10 bargain somewhere
30hz is pretty low, many pro audio subs quit around 40 hz,
id guess you could aim for 38-hz have move volume and still be very happy.
logitech Z5500 | eBay
ill keep my eyes open for a $10 bargain somewhere
30hz is pretty low, many pro audio subs quit around 40 hz,
id guess you could aim for 38-hz have move volume and still be very happy.
logitec Z5500, is that where the tb 10 comes from?
ill keep my eyes open for a $10 bargain somewhere
30hz is pretty low, many pro audio subs quit around 40 hz,
id guess you could aim for 38-hz have move volume and still be very happy.
This is what the subwoofer looks like, it sold for $20.50 (I should of grabbed it when I had the chance)
Logitech Z2300 Replacement Subwoofer surround speaker | eBay
The Logitechs were purchased for surround sound/music system with teenaged boys in the house. One speaker was destroyed after 6 years of abuse so when they turned 18, I DIY'd some proper wood/stuffed boxes for the full ranges as surrounds and was shocked how good they sounded.
The system is a hybrid PA/music design with flexibility as their forte'. 95% of the time, they will be playing music in the garage at a few watts so 30 Hz is a must. I can easily bump the EQ to get 38 Hz since two dozen 5" woofers in sealed boxes won't have issues. The sub is mainly there when dropped tuned guitarists plug in--it is just practice so it won't be concert levels. High output party speakers are a few times per year so I'm aiming for 30Hz. For higher output party speaker mod, I'll just move the high pass filter on the subs to 40Hz for protection and increased power handling. The crossover will move from 75 to 100 Hz so the receiver won't be pushed as much.
Getting 95dB at one watt from 30 Hz to 100 Hz flat should not be too hard, it is less than 2 octaves so fits the tapped horn passband quite well. Peaks of 115 dB loaded in the corner with 150 watts sounds reasonable and I can build a second one and drive the pair of them at 100 watts each if I feel the need for 120 dB.
My DIY concept is to build rather odd designs to see and hear what they do. Line arrays are interesting so I'll team them up with a horn sub to finish off that "wonder what this does" ponderings. My son wants to mount a subwoofer in his car--stuffed transmission line anyone?
I'm having fun, learning things and the more unique and odd-ball the garage sound system is--the better. Nothing stranger than line arrays and tapped horns and my wife don't mind--as long as they stay in the garage.
You guys are way up there on SPL requirements
not sure if im an oddball (actually im sure i am), but 99.9% of the live shows/clubs ive ever been to have been way toooooooooooo loud, with mediocre-bad sound quality,
id take a 50% reduction in spl and 50% increase in sound quality at live shows/clubs any time.
and ive been a drummer for 30 years !!
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i've had a tapped horn in my van for the last 2 weeks, its awesome
You got pics?
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