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LIVE SOUND Specific  Tapped Horn thread...
LIVE SOUND Specific  Tapped Horn thread...
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Old 29th December 2008, 04:55 PM   #131
MarjanM is offline MarjanM  Macedonia
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You have to be aware that TH115 has a horn length of around 270cm (9ft). You must have a horn of approximate length to achieve strong response down to 40Hz.
Looking at your scheme i can see that you are missing one more fold in the first part of the horn.
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Old 29th December 2008, 07:28 PM   #132
screamersusa is offline screamersusa  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarjanM
You have to be aware that TH115 has a horn length of around 270cm (9ft). You must have a horn of approximate length to achieve strong response down to 40Hz.
Looking at your scheme i can see that you are missing one more fold in the first part of the horn.
Hmm. That's good to know. Thank you.
I'm trying to balance the upper end response as well to meet up with BFM OT12's (modified). I've tried adding another fold but the response above 95hz is not any better than a direct radiator.
The slightly shorter tapered box had very nice usable upper end vs the longer extra fold boxes...all 20 or so of them I tried. Getting a box to play to 40 from 80hz and below isn't that hard, but you need 15" 3way tops to go with them especially in arrays..
I cannot build 10 replacement tops for a while so these will have to serve for now. This would give me more time to learn Akbak and other knowledge to design a better one. Lots of people have Omnitops so the final box won't be a waste.
I'm going for a compromise to 42-45hz with a 260cm path with smooth tapers and no 180 degree bends, 103db average at 1w1m equal to a double 18 bin. That box is bigger than it looks. Without a sense of Master Tom's method of maintaining upper end response, I know I'll be very lucky if I can match the UCS1.
The power curve on the TH is interesting, so I've started looking at different wattage vs spl ratings in my DR vs TH physical tests.
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Old 29th December 2008, 07:49 PM   #133
screamersusa is offline screamersusa  United States
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After this TH project is done, I start the new tops as funds come in. Somewhere along the line I have an adjustable prototyping scheme for the next Live use TH project. It allows one to adjust the sidewall taper sections from outside the prototype box. It will have a plexiglass faceplate so one can verify alignment as well as 1.5" boat plug holes to access different parts of the horn to test the path. This way real time adjustments can be made to a much smaller standard sized box and path length to optimize for different drivers. Also will allow for some interesting experimentation on compression along horn lengths.
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Old 29th December 2008, 11:14 PM   #134
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarjanM
You have to be aware that TH115 has a horn length of around 270cm (9ft).
Speculation or fact?

TIA,

GM
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Old 29th December 2008, 11:22 PM   #135
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by screamersusa
.........I have an adjustable prototyping scheme for the next Live use TH project.
I'm curious, are you licensed to use TD's patent pending TH concept for personal gain?

GM
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Old 29th December 2008, 11:48 PM   #136
djk is offline djk
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Perhaps it's time to come up with a new name for DIY projects using the technology in this (expired) patent:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=_JR..._pages&cad=0_1
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Old 30th December 2008, 01:28 AM   #137
screamersusa is offline screamersusa  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM


I'm curious, are you licensed to use TD's patent pending TH concept for personal gain?

GM
I'm not planning on selling them. But since you mention it...
If one were to enforce patents in the Microsoft way, then 99 percent of the speakers in the world are illegal. Every chord progression you play on any instrument would be copywrited.
And every invention would end where it began simply because
it's variations in original ideas and imitation that bring progress.
Considering that my eventual intention is to utilize TD's concept to actually buy his product, and I have no other way to do so otherwise, building these would wind up benefiting him anyway.
On top of that I am constantly asked to recommend gear to people WHO HAVE MONEY to spend, because they respect my DIY system against thier own Store bought systems or more expensive sound companies. As soon as they realize that I have built them, they start asking questions.
The first one is always how much to buy mine, the answer is always "I don't build them for sale but such and such from manufacturer X would be just as good or better" or "You can buy the plans from...". I could have sold at least 50 of my old tops by now, and they were easy to build, but instead I told them, to buy the original JBL or EAW design they were based on. Interestingly enough Meyer is now making the same box, with thier own touches of course.
If TD disagrees, he may most certainly email me through my site or prosound web discreetly as to how he would like this handled.

With all due respect, either a Russian or Asian company will reverse engineer one soon enough causing TD a real headache.
Do look on Alibabba.com, You'll find original Crown's, Jbl's, Mackies, and a host of others with different names on them coming out of the exact same factories the originals are made in as well as cheap knock offs. I got to compare a cheap ASHTONE cabinet to the apparently cloned Cerwin Vega only to discover the same exact box with the same exact qc stickers.
Same box, same factory, different badge, $200.00 price difference.
Sorry for the rant folks.
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Old 30th December 2008, 01:46 PM   #138
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Let me say Im not a qualified legal person so you should take my words with a gain of salt. However, I have spoken to a couple patent attorneys and both believed that there was too much prior art to justify granting TDs current patent application. Once again, take these words with a grain of salt.
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Old 30th December 2008, 07:20 PM   #139
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by screamersusa
After this TH project is done, I start the new tops as funds come in.

huh? did I miss something? anything to share? I've spent hours trying to find the best 12x24x24 top cabinet design of late for a single 10.

Another interesting thought that was presented to me, was a concept for a TH midbass top, to reach down to subs...
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File Type: jpg tops.jpg (16.2 KB, 950 views)
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Old 31st December 2008, 05:15 AM   #140
screamersusa is offline screamersusa  United States
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JBELL
The otops are not cutting it. They are probably the loudest and cleanest otops out there but the design has some limitations.
You had the right Idea by extending the dual 10 design and the piezos work for your application. In my case the piezos were a dismal failure and I had to go with compresion horns.
They sound great but the ports are a big problem and the horn cuts off too fast so you are limited in sub choices.
The new design is an 18 inch deep two stage horn, with a round throat entry and a quasi phase plug behind the centrally mounted PV22xt 5x14 horns. 24x15x22in box.

Two CTH1524s variations got built today. Both at 269cm but different internal arrangements. The first one failed, it went lower but lost high end and level. I don't have high hopes for the other either. I'll try it tomorrow and possibly put the original one back together adding 10 cm to it.
I'm looking at trying to model some double 15 4015 bins in akbak as a backup plan as I am way past my sub building time and eating into repair time for the next few shows. I really don't want to have to rent Meyer 650's and work for free.
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