In the next couple of months I will be throwing a once a month electronic music event featuring lots of bass heavy music and I need to buy/construct a PA system that will shake the walls of this little 65-75 person bar ...
BUT I'm a virgin to PA setups ... And to DIY speaker assembly... So I was wondering if you kind folks could offer me some advice-lessons, ect ...
Initially I was hoping to construct something retarded and overkill but I dont think I need to break glass in this small place , not yet anyways ... I think maybe 35-40hz response would be good for now ...
And for what I see myself using this soundsystem for in the next 2 years is - this small bar , maybe another slightly larger bar and some indoor and outdoor house parties that I could use a handcart to move my equipment into ... If I could rock this small to semi-small spots i'd be happy ... Of course , as long as the whole place was rattling
...
Again - the bar I'm starting this event up at is small ...
It is the shape of a rectangle with an area in the back corner that you walk up 3 or 4 steps and they then place an adapter over the stairs to create a makeshift stage out of it to maximize space ...
My MAIN concern is DOING THE MUSIC JUSTICE. Giving the songs their proper range of sound .... And since i'm a bass fiend [dnb - dubstep - breakz - hiphop] the low end is my nirvana ...
range of bass is more important than overall loudness , considering this place is so small... But I do want it to be a wild dance party so I need enough volume and bass to rock the **** out of this little bar.
I'm thinking I wont spend more than 2k unless the ratio of performance and value was dramatically increased proportional to the amount of cash increased.
I do want new equipment ...
and I also had heard the price jump from 15" woofers to 18" woofers isn't even worth it because you can just double the amount of 15's you buy and you'll equal if not exceed the bass of the same money spent on 18's ... Sound right?? For instance 4x15 for the cost of 2x18 or something similar ...
The only audio setups i've done really were hooking up some event monitors to my soundcard and an amp and a couple Home Theatre systems for my TV and one for my Computer so again i'm a virgin to this ... But i am looking to pop my cherry :teeth:
someone please help me pop my cherry
hahaha!
thanks guys
~ meta
BUT I'm a virgin to PA setups ... And to DIY speaker assembly... So I was wondering if you kind folks could offer me some advice-lessons, ect ...
Initially I was hoping to construct something retarded and overkill but I dont think I need to break glass in this small place , not yet anyways ... I think maybe 35-40hz response would be good for now ...
And for what I see myself using this soundsystem for in the next 2 years is - this small bar , maybe another slightly larger bar and some indoor and outdoor house parties that I could use a handcart to move my equipment into ... If I could rock this small to semi-small spots i'd be happy ... Of course , as long as the whole place was rattling
...
Again - the bar I'm starting this event up at is small ...
It is the shape of a rectangle with an area in the back corner that you walk up 3 or 4 steps and they then place an adapter over the stairs to create a makeshift stage out of it to maximize space ...
My MAIN concern is DOING THE MUSIC JUSTICE. Giving the songs their proper range of sound .... And since i'm a bass fiend [dnb - dubstep - breakz - hiphop] the low end is my nirvana ...
range of bass is more important than overall loudness , considering this place is so small... But I do want it to be a wild dance party so I need enough volume and bass to rock the **** out of this little bar.
I'm thinking I wont spend more than 2k unless the ratio of performance and value was dramatically increased proportional to the amount of cash increased.
I do want new equipment ...
and I also had heard the price jump from 15" woofers to 18" woofers isn't even worth it because you can just double the amount of 15's you buy and you'll equal if not exceed the bass of the same money spent on 18's ... Sound right?? For instance 4x15 for the cost of 2x18 or something similar ...
The only audio setups i've done really were hooking up some event monitors to my soundcard and an amp and a couple Home Theatre systems for my TV and one for my Computer so again i'm a virgin to this ... But i am looking to pop my cherry :teeth:
someone please help me pop my cherry
hahaha!
thanks guys
~ meta
Well you left out some things we need to know.
Do you already own wood working tools?
If the answer to the question is NO then I would suggest purchasing a TH Mini sub from Danley Sound Labs, 2/4 Peavey SP10's or 12's. Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive. 2 used Crown XLS 602 amplifiers. (1@600w stereo @4 ohms for mid/highs other bridge for 1200w mono for sub) A gator amp rack and a Furman power conditioner. That should be right around 2.2 K
A PA that puts out over 130 DB from 50Hz-21KHz.
-10DB at 41 Hz. In a size that can fit into a hatch back!
If you do and want to build your own then how will you transport said system?
Do you already own wood working tools?
If the answer to the question is NO then I would suggest purchasing a TH Mini sub from Danley Sound Labs, 2/4 Peavey SP10's or 12's. Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive. 2 used Crown XLS 602 amplifiers. (1@600w stereo @4 ohms for mid/highs other bridge for 1200w mono for sub) A gator amp rack and a Furman power conditioner. That should be right around 2.2 K
A PA that puts out over 130 DB from 50Hz-21KHz.
-10DB at 41 Hz. In a size that can fit into a hatch back!
If you do and want to build your own then how will you transport said system?
FlipC said:
Wood working tools could be easily had and I'm glad you asked the question because I gives me a sense that this is do-able , even for a beginner ... I hope LOL.
How about the CS30 or the TH112 mixed with a couple of other loud speakers to cover the range? I'm guessing the CS30 may not kick out that 33hz response far enough out into the crowd?
Also I do have a furman , although its only used for my home studio equipment , computer, monitor screens, keyboards and 300w QSC amp...
And for transportation - I'll be using my girlfriends pickup for the time being ... If that falls through LOL , i'll be borrowing a truck or SUV from a friend or family member
Although I do love the idea of having something fit in a hatchback! Unfortunately i'm a tall lanky bastard standing at 6'3" so as much as I love VW's and Subaru's and old school honda civics - I dont fit in them very well haha ...
thanks again
How do you feel about the UltraCURVE pro :
http://www.audiomidi.com/DEQ2496-UltraCurve-Pro--P4245.aspx#
as opposed to the UltraDRIVE - i'm guessing the Curve is more eq centered ??
In another thread someone suggested the T36 horn saying:
"Its a single 15" horn that takes about 300 watts to be almost as loud as a JBL dual 18". big cabinets though, but WELL worth the money, high dollar to db ratio here."
Any Thoughts?
I'm new to all this so i'm trying to run comparisons to wrap my head around things.
http://www.audiomidi.com/DEQ2496-UltraCurve-Pro--P4245.aspx#
as opposed to the UltraDRIVE - i'm guessing the Curve is more eq centered ??
In another thread someone suggested the T36 horn saying:
"Its a single 15" horn that takes about 300 watts to be almost as loud as a JBL dual 18". big cabinets though, but WELL worth the money, high dollar to db ratio here."
Any Thoughts?
I'm new to all this so i'm trying to run comparisons to wrap my head around things.
metaverse said:
No, you need a crossover to only send bass to the bassspeakers and mid-hi to the tops.
However, i would advice to stay away from behringer on such an important function as the crossover and get a DBX 223 , RANE AC22 or some other similar and more reliable crossovers instead.
The ultracurcve could still be used as system eq since it then would be possible to bypass it when it breaks.
You also have other all-in-one alternatives like DBX PX which can do both eq , crossover and a lot of other useful stuff.
http://www.dbxpro.com/DriveRackPX/PX.php
I had a bad experience with T36. There was some fairly tale spl charts for them. Bill F. has updated them, however they still are ??? One chart has Two T36 making 95db@40hz, another has one T36 making 95db@40hz, and yet another makes 90db@40hz.. So I still don't trust the spl charts I see -- they don't add up.
On the ultradrive. Yes, that's what you need -- DCX2496. It's your eq, your crossover, your delay processor, your brick wall limiter, your dynamic eq. It's everything you need to set up your system. For the price, nothing touches it. Just make sure it's road worthy. Some have taken to intentionally dropping (about 4-5 inches) a dcx2496 3 or 4 times on a table with a towel under it to prevent scratches, to find out if it has any loose connections before putting it in their system. Any with loose connections will be found that way, and you can return under warranty easy enough. (better to find out that way... than at a gig...)
On sub's & tops, I have personal opinions, but they are just that.. opinions. I'm currently designing a personal pa system, that sounds about like what you are looking for, based on the MCM 55-1740 driver. 4 tops, and 4 subs. both are 100db-plus 1Watt efficient and will make alot of noise from a single amp.
Just be careful on what you look at, and make sure the math all adds up... After all, it's all math.
On the ultradrive. Yes, that's what you need -- DCX2496. It's your eq, your crossover, your delay processor, your brick wall limiter, your dynamic eq. It's everything you need to set up your system. For the price, nothing touches it. Just make sure it's road worthy. Some have taken to intentionally dropping (about 4-5 inches) a dcx2496 3 or 4 times on a table with a towel under it to prevent scratches, to find out if it has any loose connections before putting it in their system. Any with loose connections will be found that way, and you can return under warranty easy enough. (better to find out that way... than at a gig...)
On sub's & tops, I have personal opinions, but they are just that.. opinions. I'm currently designing a personal pa system, that sounds about like what you are looking for, based on the MCM 55-1740 driver. 4 tops, and 4 subs. both are 100db-plus 1Watt efficient and will make alot of noise from a single amp.
Just be careful on what you look at, and make sure the math all adds up... After all, it's all math.
FlipC said:
All fine except it doesn't get down into the sub-40Hz region which was one of the OP's main requirements -- and neither do the majority of PA subs.
For that type of music and simple self-building this is probably the best bet:
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=x1
(but loaded with a better driver than the P-audio SD18, probably the Void V18-1000 is the best bet and actually a bit cheaper)
Ian
Provided that you know how to use it, the DCX2496 can do more useful signal processing than any analog crossover, even more than many digital crossovers from reputable brands costing up to 10 times more.
If you are concerned about the reliability, you can get a spare unit, or two, and still save money...
If you are concerned about the reliability, you can get a spare unit, or two, and still save money...
LOL
I was going to suggest a bandpass like the X1
Why I asked how he would be transporting the PA.
I don't think allot of people look at budgets.
He wants to spend 2 K on the entire rig. Wants sub bass. And it is only for 60-80 people.
DBX products are out due to cost.
Also I did not mean to put down the DCX2496 but rather the
Behringer FBQ6200. Sorry about that. A big difference there. The FBQ will handle all your needs in 1 unit. From being a "crossover" source for your subs. To limiting ( a big plus for your needs) and an EQ to sort the room.
I wouldn't build the T36 for your needs.
I own 2 of the very first from Cerwin Vega. So old that the 18" drivers are 4 ohms. Cerwin freaked out when I sent one of the drivers in to have it fixed. The throw is to long for such a small venue. The X1 would be a much better build.
Also to note.
The physical size of the driver (10/12/15/18) doesn't mean it will produce more bass. The cabinet and the driver must work together.
So when looking at plans dont think you have to build an 18" version. You could always build an X1 for a driver like the
Lab 12
I was going to suggest a bandpass like the X1
Why I asked how he would be transporting the PA.
I don't think allot of people look at budgets.
He wants to spend 2 K on the entire rig. Wants sub bass. And it is only for 60-80 people.
DBX products are out due to cost.
Also I did not mean to put down the DCX2496 but rather the
Behringer FBQ6200. Sorry about that. A big difference there. The FBQ will handle all your needs in 1 unit. From being a "crossover" source for your subs. To limiting ( a big plus for your needs) and an EQ to sort the room.
I wouldn't build the T36 for your needs.
I own 2 of the very first from Cerwin Vega. So old that the 18" drivers are 4 ohms. Cerwin freaked out when I sent one of the drivers in to have it fixed. The throw is to long for such a small venue. The X1 would be a much better build.
Also to note.
The physical size of the driver (10/12/15/18) doesn't mean it will produce more bass. The cabinet and the driver must work together.
So when looking at plans dont think you have to build an 18" version. You could always build an X1 for a driver like the
Lab 12
Now I'm not the most technical guy but he wants indoor PA not HT.Why is there so much stress on 20hz.I use T36's in different ways and have had excellent success.Unless horn is the size of a tank it is all about loading.Corner load 4-T36's and you'll be deaf.Now I am a bass freak and have 1-36x36x36" on huge tugboat for parties.It IS corner loaded dual 15's and I played with high pass filter and liked it best at 35hz-12db slope.I play heavy bass tracks and it shakes the windows.JBELL for my T36's in my house.They are corner loaded on top of each other for HT.Each has Shiva-x,put 1 watt to each and got 96.8db.Is that about what u got?BUT i also got 103.3 at 40 and 106.7 at 50.That's where I find the "music bass" to be more pronounced.I maxed at 124.6 at 20hz in about 25'x25' room as they are bolted into wall,and 133.9 at 80hz,Thanks and good luck with decision.Metaverse I still say 4-T36's will be bass heavy there.
Attachments
shawn1972 said:
Who's mentioned 20Hz ?
FWIW I'd second the recomendation for the X1 from speakerplans. It's an easy build and has a hefty output for its size. I'd like to build a pair of them myself for using in the garden for parties. Just need some spare cash for the drivers.
There's no denying 4 x T36 would be very impressive, but a lot more work.
Rob.
djk, can you link you discussions? I'm interested...
I would also recommend the X1. Run 30-80/90hz with the right woofers (since you're in the US, a SD18 from loudspeakersplus is the one to use) it makes vision blur. It is the thing to use for the music you are playing.
And the Ultradrive is a staple for many PA rigs out there (budget of course, but can be found lurking in monitoring racks in some 'high class' areas that would otherwise use XTA/Dolby Lake. The main separator between it and the top class ones is reliability, then features.
DRPA has a reputation for eating drivers like maple syrup and pancakes.
I would also recommend the X1. Run 30-80/90hz with the right woofers (since you're in the US, a SD18 from loudspeakersplus is the one to use) it makes vision blur. It is the thing to use for the music you are playing.
And the Ultradrive is a staple for many PA rigs out there (budget of course, but can be found lurking in monitoring racks in some 'high class' areas that would otherwise use XTA/Dolby Lake. The main separator between it and the top class ones is reliability, then features.
DRPA has a reputation for eating drivers like maple syrup and pancakes.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.