Sometimes it does not take very long
I never understood people using these, but some swear by them. A few have said that they let theirs turn and do nothing about it, and yet, they sound good Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. Some people do not want anything between them and their music. That includes plating on their binding posts. I suggest at least using a preservative like ProGold. This does protect them.
For me, I prefer the CCGR. Binding posts are a convention. They allow easy connection and disconnection. If you were the super puritan type, you would not use posts at all (as some have chose). You would hard wire the speaker. For the majority, the ones who use posts, why would you use a post that requires such care? Further, I prefer the sound of the CCGR over the CCBP. I find the CCBP a bit rolled. Perhaps it is the shear size of this solid conductor. Whatever the case, the Silver plate and Rhodium flash sounds better to me. Don't get me wrong, I do believe the Gold plate (CCGG) has its place if one will benefit from taming the highs or warming on the whole. However, these are subtle effects. The more refined the system, the more noticeable they are. But, I have listen to many systems where the differences would be utterly undetectable
I never understood people using these, but some swear by them. A few have said that they let theirs turn and do nothing about it, and yet, they sound good Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. Some people do not want anything between them and their music. That includes plating on their binding posts. I suggest at least using a preservative like ProGold. This does protect them. For me, I prefer the CCGR. Binding posts are a convention. They allow easy connection and disconnection. If you were the super puritan type, you would not use posts at all (as some have chose). You would hard wire the speaker. For the majority, the ones who use posts, why would you use a post that requires such care? Further, I prefer the sound of the CCGR over the CCBP. I find the CCBP a bit rolled. Perhaps it is the shear size of this solid conductor. Whatever the case, the Silver plate and Rhodium flash sounds better to me. Don't get me wrong, I do believe the Gold plate (CCGG) has its place if one will benefit from taming the highs or warming on the whole. However, these are subtle effects. The more refined the system, the more noticeable they are. But, I have listen to many systems where the differences would be utterly undetectable
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Eventually they were replaced with these for higher performance http://qcomponents.ca/product.php?productid=905&cat=115&page=1
An upgrade to the plugs in the cup: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product7483.html
If we what to go all out, the Eichmann: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product1873.html
The WBT next Gen look interesting, haven't tried them yet.
dave
An upgrade to the plugs in the cup: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product7483.html
If we what to go all out, the Eichmann: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product1873.html
The WBT next Gen look interesting, haven't tried them yet.
dave
Surely you jest
I think he is looking for improvement. I can not completely make out what you are trying to convey due to your typos, but that is definitely headed in the wrong direction. The Goldwoods are total crap including their ferromagnetic hardware. The product in the second link is not much better than the first, and the CCBP is superior to them easily.
The Eichmann RCAs have their place, but the cablepods, not so good. Again, I find the CCBP better than the cablepods. However, I did have the cablepods on Sale for $55 per set for over four months. Why so long? Probably because too many people were buying the superior CCGR.
I have listened to the WBTs, not to mention I was a dealer, they are over priced "for what they are". And still, the CCGR sounds better IMO.
Assuming you have some actual experience with the CCBP, I can only deduce that their was some kind of problem. Further, your recommendations might be a bit too frugal for this conversation. However, I encourage you to check out our current specials. The Vampire BP-Hex is seriously cheap for being the best Brass metal based post I have heard.
BTW, I truly appreciated your participation in my forum whether I agree with your views, or not . However, as a moderator yourself in the Vendor Forums, I find it distasteful for you to have posted in my forum with links to one of my primary competitors. At the very least, I would have assumed you would have linked directly to a manufacturer. I believe diyAudio has some rules or concern regarding "conflicts of interest". In any event, please do not do this again.
Sorry about that, i am renowned for my poor typing.
They may be cheesy, but like many connectors, low price usually means less metal. What does it say about the Cardas that they sound better.
You may not agree, but some do. I have seen these same posts on 5-10k amplifiers -- good ones.
BTW, one can make the Cardas sound better by completely removing the nuts on them (if you use bananas)
Fancy looking, and following in the male, "mine is bigger than yours" tradition, but i found their performance hugely underwhelming (i am being polite).
A number of sets. On amps and speakers.
I am after all a frugal-phile(tm)
I am a member 1st, if you do not see a cop smiley i am not a moderator. I am sorry i did not notice that this was a vendor forum (a common error by many members, there is no clear indication that separates the regular forum from the vendor forums), as the moderator on your forum you are free to delete my posts maybe you should). I am only passing on my experience.
dave
Dave,
No problem. I hunt and peck, so I can not really say I type.
I have not always found low mass to be good.
I have seen much more expensive amps use those huge WBTs, and we both know what those sound like. The low copper content brass is not helping either. High priced audio gear is not exempt from poor sounding parts. If one were using bananas with their CCGRs, it would be reasonable to remove the binding nuts. If they were using CCGRs, I would hope they would use spades.
Most high-end amps and speakers that use cardas posts use the HCBP or ACBP....not good. And remember, I do not care for the CCBP.
Please express the actual sonic issues you noticed with the CCBP. Assuming it was not the HCBP or ACBP. Further, please compare it to what you hear with the cablepods. I find the cablepods very overpriced, and I am not even a Frugal-file
I will share this though. When I first started building speakers back in the 70s, I use to use long small stainless steel screws for terminals. I screwed them in from the inside, and double nutted them on the outside. It was cheap However, over time, I found the same thing I found with non-inductive resistors that use stainless end caps. Stainless sounds bad.
I asked for your opinion, and have no intention of deleting your post.
No problem. I hunt and peck, so I can not really say I type.
I have not always found low mass to be good.
I have seen much more expensive amps use those huge WBTs, and we both know what those sound like. The low copper content brass is not helping either. High priced audio gear is not exempt from poor sounding parts. If one were using bananas with their CCGRs, it would be reasonable to remove the binding nuts. If they were using CCGRs, I would hope they would use spades.
Most high-end amps and speakers that use cardas posts use the HCBP or ACBP....not good. And remember, I do not care for the CCBP.
Please express the actual sonic issues you noticed with the CCBP. Assuming it was not the HCBP or ACBP. Further, please compare it to what you hear with the cablepods. I find the cablepods very overpriced, and I am not even a Frugal-file
I will share this though. When I first started building speakers back in the 70s, I use to use long small stainless steel screws for terminals. I screwed them in from the inside, and double nutted them on the outside. It was cheap
However, over time, I found the same thing I found with non-inductive resistors that use stainless end caps. Stainless sounds bad.I asked for your opinion, and have no intention of deleting your post.
Yes, I just figured that out by reading about it. I was looking for something more specific from you own objective/subjective view, rather than a philosophy. I do find it interesting that one who deals in "full range drivers" would be concerned with extended bandwidth. Perhaps I'm viewing it wrong. I could understand one doing everything possible to extend the bandwidth of a "full range driver"
So, you feel (or have heard) the "DDR" is better with those Goldwood binding post than say a Cardas CCGR?
So, you feel (or have heard) the "DDR" is better with those Goldwood binding post than say a Cardas CCGR?
DDR is only indirectly related to bandwidth. It is a measure of depth not width, and covers a lot of the territory covered by "audiophile" terminology.
One of the quickest to "spot" is the ability to throw a 3D image which requires both low level detail and clean phase information.
Each set of the Cardas we replaced with one of the mentioned posts (the primary case a set of Woden Victor with FE166eSReN + 2A3 SE) improved DDR.
dave
One of the quickest to "spot" is the ability to throw a 3D image which requires both low level detail and clean phase information.
Each set of the Cardas we replaced with one of the mentioned posts (the primary case a set of Woden Victor with FE166eSReN + 2A3 SE) improved DDR.
dave
My apologies for the late reply, but priorities do come before my ventures down the rabbit hole
"Depth" as you refer to it here, is a subjective observation of acoustical response. I am discussing binding posts. The only way these could effect DDR as you put it "The ability to reproduce subtle information even in the presence of much louder signal", is if they had some parasitic or reatance. You state the low mass issue, so I assume you are referring to Inductive reactance.
The ability to recreate space (the recording as it was mic'd/mixed) depends on a lot of things. But yes, it depends on signal integrity, and linear phase. Hard gold plate over nickel and god knows what on a stressed low copper brass with magnetic hardware does not bode well with regards to your technical assertion. Lets see, purity of signal (especially low level) through this mess of conductive material...hmm. Magnetic...so, we have limited bandwidth, and phase rotation due to reactance. Sure these effects are small, but the issues you are referring to are tiny in comparison. Perhaps parasitic loss if not an inductive issue, but I have seen the post you refer to with the thread locker all around the hole of the tab insulting this slip connector from the post. The thread locker is often under the nut (and lock washer if present) as well. A lot of signal must go by way of that magnetic hardware to a poor connection with that generally magnetic tab.
You have made reference to a full range driver (I'll refer to this as a 3/4 range driver). This is not a very good reference. The CCBP, which is what started this thread, would not be my selection for that set up. You will note that I referred to the CCBP as rolled before you even posted in this thread. Meaning that the CCBP would add to the problems this 3/4 range driver already has. I could actually see the sonic signature of those cheap post helping many 3/4 range drivers.
You were right, and I should have listened. However, you should not cast shadows on a product that did not work out with "your" unique setup. I know you implied that it did not work out in other applications, but judging by your fancy, it might have always been some unique niche. With all this poor experience you have had, I wonder why you did not just give up on them much sooner Further, with all this exposure to those poor sounding posts, I would think you could have given a little detail (any actually) on how you found their sonic character. Heck, anything outside of a single broad generalization. You have not even mention what model or models that you had experience with.
I have never used (in mods) or recommended the CCBP, ACBP, or HCBP. I have used the CCGR to replace those post you seem to like. The outcome was always positive. I have used the CCGG on very few occasion to help push system synergy in a desired direction. If you like those post, great! Perhaps they just sound better to you, and we do not need a technical reason why they do so. I can live with that. However, I'm working with different experiences. Perhaps you could respect that.
"Depth" as you refer to it here, is a subjective observation of acoustical response. I am discussing binding posts. The only way these could effect DDR as you put it "The ability to reproduce subtle information even in the presence of much louder signal", is if they had some parasitic or reatance. You state the low mass issue, so I assume you are referring to Inductive reactance.
The ability to recreate space (the recording as it was mic'd/mixed) depends on a lot of things. But yes, it depends on signal integrity, and linear phase. Hard gold plate over nickel and god knows what on a stressed low copper brass with magnetic hardware does not bode well with regards to your technical assertion. Lets see, purity of signal (especially low level) through this mess of conductive material...hmm. Magnetic...so, we have limited bandwidth, and phase rotation due to reactance. Sure these effects are small, but the issues you are referring to are tiny in comparison. Perhaps parasitic loss if not an inductive issue, but I have seen the post you refer to with the thread locker all around the hole of the tab insulting this slip connector from the post. The thread locker is often under the nut (and lock washer if present) as well. A lot of signal must go by way of that magnetic hardware to a poor connection with that generally magnetic tab.
You have made reference to a full range driver (I'll refer to this as a 3/4 range driver). This is not a very good reference. The CCBP, which is what started this thread, would not be my selection for that set up. You will note that I referred to the CCBP as rolled before you even posted in this thread. Meaning that the CCBP would add to the problems this 3/4 range driver already has. I could actually see the sonic signature of those cheap post helping many 3/4 range drivers.
You were right, and I should have listened. However, you should not cast shadows on a product that did not work out with "your" unique setup. I know you implied that it did not work out in other applications, but judging by your fancy, it might have always been some unique niche. With all this poor experience you have had, I wonder why you did not just give up on them much sooner
Further, with all this exposure to those poor sounding posts, I would think you could have given a little detail (any actually) on how you found their sonic character. Heck, anything outside of a single broad generalization. You have not even mention what model or models that you had experience with.I have never used (in mods) or recommended the CCBP, ACBP, or HCBP. I have used the CCGR to replace those post you seem to like. The outcome was always positive. I have used the CCGG on very few occasion to help push system synergy in a desired direction. If you like those post, great! Perhaps they just sound better to you, and we do not need a technical reason why they do so. I can live with that. However, I'm working with different experiences. Perhaps you could respect that.
They are by far the best post (0710) they have made IMO, but I like the Furutech FT-809 (R) better. It is more extended with better air. It sounds more natural to me. It may have slightly more bass weight too. It is generally more money than the 0710 in Cu, but often less than the Ag.
Technically, perhaps it is because the 809 is made from a higher purity copper? Perhaps is is because it has been cryo-ed? Perhaps it is because the 0710 Cu has a thick bronze sub-plate below the very thin gold plate? I know why I do not like the Ag. It sounds like 3/9s silver. To be honest, I do not like the sound of silver until it is at least 5/9s pure. 6 to 7/9s pure OCC silver sounds warmer than any copper I have heard. Anyway, that is another story.
BTW, modified Cardas CPBPs do sound nice for the money, but practical mounting?
I think I have gone way off course in this thread. I'm pretty sure I answered the query in my first reply
You aren't getting it. I am talking about what is happening "40 dB" down.
The speakers are the ones on the left.
dave
Just wanted to add my .02$ regarding the unplated copper binding posts. I've not used or heard them but I like the idea of no gold plating, even if it means a bit more care and feeding. No biggie IMHO.
I have used unplated copper spade connectors and to my aging ears they have a certain, hard to describe, quality that any type of plating changes/masks to some extent. I assume the unplated copper bp's would be the same.
The only caveat I have regarding the Cardas (gold plated cu.) binding posts is a mechanical one. I've had a problem with them un-tightening against the plate or cabinet (not against the connection itself). This causes them to twist as you tighten the spade/wire.
Mechanically you can't beat the tried and true Superior bp's. I don't know how they compare in the sonics department but I do remember Bob Crump liked them.
I have used unplated copper spade connectors and to my aging ears they have a certain, hard to describe, quality that any type of plating changes/masks to some extent. I assume the unplated copper bp's would be the same.
The only caveat I have regarding the Cardas (gold plated cu.) binding posts is a mechanical one. I've had a problem with them un-tightening against the plate or cabinet (not against the connection itself). This causes them to twist as you tighten the spade/wire.
Mechanically you can't beat the tried and true Superior bp's. I don't know how they compare in the sonics department but I do remember Bob Crump liked them.
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If I am not getting it, it is because you are making no sense. I know you do not have any measurements to support this, so I am left with anecdotal evidence or subjective observation. So far, you have not offered any of this. Well, other than, "I think these are much better..."
I guess I'll try baby steps. How do you believe the post you prefer allow this superior performance? You have hinted at low mass. Is this correct? If not, please explain.
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