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-   -   Updating an Ellis 1801 Crossover (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/sonic-craft/230138-updating-ellis-1801-crossover.html)

DavidLS 18th April 2013 03:33 AM

1 Attachment(s)
and there is music

my crossover build got waylaid by self inflicted damage created when I tried to install the new crossover in the speaker. Broke one of the woofer capacitors. So

1. had to order some new parts
2. decided to move the crossover outside the box

this cabinet is tight due to two large braces dividing the interior into three narrow spaces.

installed the black hole - very smooth installation, slick product

still waiting on boxes for the crossovers so have temporary arrangement of crossover mounted on a 2x6 and wires running in through rear port. Not pretty - Donna walked in and said what is that contraption on top of the speakers, and then hope its not going to stay like that!

been playing music for about 3 hours and have to say I am impressed with tweeter sound. Always found these speakers a little dark - now I have details galore and a bit brighter sound than I am used to. Not a bad bright though so far. A reminder that little was done on woofer side (blackhole 5, new wire and so far removed poly behind woofer). On tweeter side though there is new wire, changed resistors to 8/12.5 as recommended by stellablues and have new platinum bypass capacitors. Still using old connectors in my jury rig - new ones will go into the box (hopefully next week)

back to Clifford Brown

stellablues 18th April 2013 05:25 AM

Awesome. Glad to see progress. I'm also glad to hear u went with the 8/12.5 as the other option may have made the tweeter too bright. Are u using the 1801b schematic or 1801a? I assume b. that's what I upgraded to in my post.


I have also been doing some tweaks. I didn't purchase all the platinums so I used some vishal mkp1837 in the other spots where I didn't have bypass... I can't say yet the impact but I am not hearing a negative issue either like I did with the sonically gen ii.

DavidLS 18th April 2013 04:00 PM

yes mine are "b" versions

curious that I swapped resistors and things sound brighter - I'm sure there will be a break-in time with all these new parts and materials so will not get too critical in what I am hearing til 50 hours or so. Enjoying the music though - was spinning some Lee Morgan and Bonnie Raitt last night - sounded great.

Nice thing about external crossover is the ability to tweak parts - for example would love to try some silver and gold mundorfs in this crossover. Still debating whether this is a box that sits on top of the speakers or on the floor behind the speakers - either way not aesthetically pleasing as in the speaker.

stellablues 19th April 2013 12:51 AM

Pulling from this page:
http://www.ellisaudio.com/resistorvalueoptions.htm

1. 7, 15 (7 ohms in series and 15 ohms in parallel) - flat tweeter

2. 8, 15 (8 ohms in series and 15 ohms in parallel) - about 1db down tweeter

3. 8, 12.5(8 ohms in series and 12.5 ohms in parallel) - about 2db down tweeter

I went originally with 8/15 and it was a little bright. 8/12.5 is better for me and my room/equipment.

Absolutely wish i could play around like that as well. if you get a design for external boxes, let me know. I assume its a nice box which sits on the floor with extra wire running to the speakers with some simple connectors there? who has a good model for this out in the world.

Then the cost of the additional top shelf wire....

Aaron

Jeff Glowacki 24th April 2013 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidLS (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/sonic-craft/230138-updating-ellis-1801-crossover-post3459331.html#post3459331)
yes mine are "b" versions

curious that I swapped resistors and things sound brighter - I'm sure there will be a break-in time with all these new parts and materials so will not get too critical in what I am hearing til 50 hours or so. Enjoying the music though - was spinning some Lee Morgan and Bonnie Raitt last night - sounded great.

Nice thing about external crossover is the ability to tweak parts - for example would love to try some silver and gold mundorfs in this crossover. Still debating whether this is a box that sits on top of the speakers or on the floor behind the speakers - either way not aesthetically pleasing as in the speaker.

That is interesting:confused: In any event, the Platinums will need around 550 hours:( However, you will be there before you know it;) If you have the coin for the Mundorf S/G, I'd recommend the Jupiter Vintage Flat Stack for that tweet.

Jeff Glowacki 24th April 2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stellablues (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/sonic-craft/230138-updating-ellis-1801-crossover-post3458805.html#post3458805)
I have also been doing some tweaks. I didn't purchase all the platinums so I used some vishal mkp1837 in the other spots where I didn't have bypass... I can't say yet the impact but I am not hearing a negative issue either like I did with the sonically gen ii.

Aaron,

I do not recommend the Platinum bypass on the low-pass shunt. The G2 is a cheap tweak that people use to warm whatever they have a G1 connected to that seems too bright. I do not like the small 1837 bypass because it generally results in too bright of a presentation more times than not.

If I had the these speakers, and the budget... I would use Jupiters for the high-pass. No bypasses. The G1 is excellent for the LP shunt. All of Dave's other selections are great. I do like better wire, but so did Dave. And, I think everyone agrees on BH5. Those Jupiters were not even available when the 1801 was offered. Even if they were, few would have dropped the coin for them.

stellablues 25th April 2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Glowacki (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/sonic-craft/230138-updating-ellis-1801-crossover-post3466382.html#post3466382)
Aaron,

I do not recommend the Platinum bypass on the low-pass shunt. The G2 is a cheap tweak that people use to warm whatever they have a G1 connected to that seems too bright. I do not like the small 1837 bypass because it generally results in too bright of a presentation more times than not.

If I had the these speakers, and the budget... I would use Jupiters for the high-pass. No bypasses. The G1 is excellent for the LP shunt. All of Dave's other selections are great. I do like better wire, but so did Dave. And, I think everyone agrees on BH5. Those Jupiters were not even available when the 1801 was offered. Even if they were, few would have dropped the coin for them.

The tweet calls for a 6.2 and 8.2 in series with an inductor between. Jupiters only come in 6.8 and 8 values online. What is usually done in this situation? Call Jupiter? Same question would apply for any cap type if I cannot source the exact sizes...

Jeff Glowacki 27th April 2013 07:17 AM

Just about any cap used here is going to be 5% or 10% tolerance, so I assume a 5% delta is more than acceptable. I believe the target value is not as important as a tight match from Left to Right. Say...1%

OK, we are in spec with a 5.89-6.51uF (5% tol), and a 7.79-8.61uF. I'm sure I can pull a ~8.1uF (high value) 8uF from stock. I can probably match a pair to 0.1%. That was easy. However, this will cost a bit more, but remember I said, "if you have the coin". I would parallel a 1.5uF, and a 4.7uF.

The biggest problem you will have is placing these in the cabinet. It is doable, but an external box is recommended.

DavidLS 23rd May 2013 03:47 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Just posting an update to my crossover project.

If you read thread above you will know I damaged one of the original soniccraft capacitors in moving the crossovers to boxes. With Jeff on vacation I went elsewhere and purchased Mundorf supreme capacitors - same value as damaged cap.

The caps arrived on Tuesday. First off they are huge - like a european wiener size compared to the battery sized soniccraft gen 1's. I finished the installation of everything on Tuesday afternoon. So the wiener sized caps, the second box, new connectors, re-installed the ports, hooked everything up and it works! Small wonders...

Sound is darn good - as I write I am about 15 hours. Everything seemed to go through a funky period last night at about 4 hours. Smoothed out this morning as I put the brilliant Alexander String Quartet Shostakovich on repeat for the day. Smooth clean sound - particularly liking the highs.

Some photos - need to finish box with something that compliments speakers and room but going to listen for a while before messing with things.

marcus1 15th July 2013 11:30 AM

Hi David

I've also got the 1801B speakers and just stumbled across this interesting thread.

Did you read Dave's comments on changing the square edge of the baffle to a 1 1/2" radius round-over?
From this thread, (1801C Discussion String), Dave comments:

"The bottom line... I will never purvey, or build a speaker with less than a 1 1/2" radius roundover in the future. If the subjective value of the Sonicap Platinum bypass capacitor implementation is $180, the subjective value of the 1 1/2" radius roundover on all edges of the baffle is $400-$500."

I think he is referring to the 1801C design but believe it also applies to the 1801B as well. Sounds promising, but it's a heap more work involved to change/build new cabinets!!


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