Re: Jpao Pedro, John Peter, JPnascim, please help me!
Hi Carlos,
I sent a nasty scanned schemtic of Gradiente MODEL 900 to your e-mail. I noticed you were kind of desperate so I guess it should be more than enough !
Anyway, any doubt please let me know and I can help you. As soon as I find more time I will draw it in LT Spice.
João Pedro
destroyer X said:
Hi Carlos,
I sent a nasty scanned schemtic of Gradiente MODEL 900 to your e-mail. I noticed you were kind of desperate so I guess it should be more than enough !
Anyway, any doubt please let me know and I can help you. As soon as I find more time I will draw it in LT Spice.
João Pedro
OH!...Thanks a lot....i am very happy to receive it...valeu! (great!)
You do not imagine how you made me happy..... well brother, you have a new friend now.
Count on me... everytime you need or want....call me...i will be with you.
Many thanks...many thanks!
Valeu cara!!! (That was great man!!!)
regards
Carlos
You do not imagine how you made me happy..... well brother, you have a new friend now.
Count on me... everytime you need or want....call me...i will be with you.
Many thanks...many thanks!
Valeu cara!!! (That was great man!!!)
regards
Carlos
Attachments
Well JPnascim, i am gratefull related your action.
And please, let me know if you need something, if there's something that i can do for you...i am ready do to it for you.
Hey man....count on me.
Do not forget that!...as i will be always gratefull.
regards,
Carlos
And please, let me know if you need something, if there's something that i can do for you...i am ready do to it for you.
Hey man....count on me.
Do not forget that!...as i will be always gratefull.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
I can do it.... put it on Spice and make it clear
I will do it, remember good times...hearing it!
I was very young when this amplifier appear, this receiver to be more precise.
Yeah!...the Beatles and Rolling Stones era....hummm delicious times.... i am remembering the girls....oh!
I am feeling great with this schematic...typing with one hand and holding it with the other!
ahahahaha...fanatic!...yeah!...that's it!
Carlos
I will do it, remember good times...hearing it!
I was very young when this amplifier appear, this receiver to be more precise.
Yeah!...the Beatles and Rolling Stones era....hummm delicious times.... i am remembering the girls....oh!
I am feeling great with this schematic...typing with one hand and holding it with the other!
ahahahaha...fanatic!...yeah!...that's it!
Carlos
Well, schematic already in my hands, and beeing adapted to work without Op Amp.
In simulator it is working, needing capacitors, rail filters and a lot of details...this is only the basic estructure.
It is working, and will go to best sub group of constructors designer....Mr. MikeB.
This is how the Gradiente turns...and will be completelly different when finished.
Those op-amps...old ones, are noisy.....no good.
To put some TL071 or one better operational amplifier, will loose the distortions i heard in the past..when i was young...i wanna that sound again!
So, for a while will research this one, till i can find older schematics with simple supplies...less sophisticaded Gradiente Designs, as this one was JVC cooperation..... if not cooperation..hummmmm,....well..thank you all.
For a while, for me, this thread reach it's end...and i will not push it again to be alive....let it die.
Thank you all.
regards,
Carlos
In simulator it is working, needing capacitors, rail filters and a lot of details...this is only the basic estructure.
It is working, and will go to best sub group of constructors designer....Mr. MikeB.
This is how the Gradiente turns...and will be completelly different when finished.
Those op-amps...old ones, are noisy.....no good.
To put some TL071 or one better operational amplifier, will loose the distortions i heard in the past..when i was young...i wanna that sound again!
So, for a while will research this one, till i can find older schematics with simple supplies...less sophisticaded Gradiente Designs, as this one was JVC cooperation..... if not cooperation..hummmmm,....well..thank you all.
For a while, for me, this thread reach it's end...and i will not push it again to be alive....let it die.
Thank you all.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Re: Well, schematic already in my hands, and beeing adapted to work without Op Amp.
You are welcome Carlos ! I am relativley new to this forum and one thing that amazed me here is the desire of everyone to help the other. So, it is my pleasure to help too.
I am learning everyday with you guys. I just wish I had more hours in day to read and practice !
I am far from experienced in amplifier design but the less we know the more we can learn ! That's one good side of not knowing much.
I've just finished my first DIY amp recently and I felt wonderful (even considering the design is not mine). I learned a lot with it. Still learning... ANd most important: I am listening to good music with it ! (because thats one main point of building amplifiers )
Sure Carlos, thanks a lot for the kind words.
I got the datasheet of the CA3080 (Intersil) used in that Gradiente and it doesn't seem the best choice by today's standards. But maybe it was very good in the late 70's when this amp came out.
It is slow (2 Mhz) and not specific for audio (according to the datasheet). But it has good slew-rate (50 V/us) and produces a not so bad sound. In my opinion, the sound of this Gradiente amplifier is pretty good, pleasant. It produces a little of a harsh sound when at high frequencies and high volume. But in general, the sound is pleasant.
I owe this amplifier all my interest in audio amp design. Its is older than me and I blew it up once (accidental short circuit of output). I promised myslef to fix it and since it is simple, I 've managed to do it. From that time, I've never stopped dealing with audio electronics.
Best regards,
João Pedro
destroyer X said:
You are welcome Carlos !
I am relativley new to this forum and one thing that amazed me here is the desire of everyone to help the other. So, it is my pleasure to help too.I am learning everyday with you guys. I just wish I had more hours in day to read and practice !
I am far from experienced in amplifier design but the less we know the more we can learn ! That's one good side of not knowing much.
I've just finished my first DIY amp recently and I felt wonderful (even considering the design is not mine). I learned a lot with it. Still learning... ANd most important: I am listening to good music with it ! (because thats one main point of building amplifiers
)destroyer X said:
Sure Carlos, thanks a lot for the kind words.
Yes,destroyer X said:
I got the datasheet of the CA3080 (Intersil) used in that Gradiente and it doesn't seem the best choice by today's standards. But maybe it was very good in the late 70's when this amp came out.
It is slow (2 Mhz) and not specific for audio (according to the datasheet). But it has good slew-rate (50 V/us) and produces a not so bad sound. In my opinion, the sound of this Gradiente amplifier is pretty good, pleasant. It produces a little of a harsh sound when at high frequencies and high volume. But in general, the sound is pleasant.
I owe this amplifier all my interest in audio amp design. Its is older than me
and I blew it up once (accidental short circuit of output). I promised myslef to fix it and since it is simple, I 've managed to do it. From that time, I've never stopped dealing with audio electronics.Best regards,
João Pedro
I was remenbering old days.... seventies... enormous Cinema Epupa!
Oh!... i was forgeting..thank you again JPnascim.
Have you another Gradiente schematic...older than this one?
Well Epupa, those times, speaker had not acoustic suspension.... speaker enclosure used tuned ducts or some ports.
Speaker had not big compliance too, and drivers are nothing special.... magnets not so big...and speaker diafragm hard to move.
Enormous Cinemas....leather chairs.... you enter and go descending.... this way, a tall man in front of you did not disturbed you...confortable seats...and a real surround sound.... all speakers inside walls... around you.... 100 meters long cinema...screen more than 30 meters long.... Cinerama, Superscope....70 milimeters movies!
And sound was wonderfull...i was in the technical area those days,i was there visiting..... amplifier 300 hundred watts, 2 units..stereo only!... dolby C Professional to reduce noise...hehe.
Amplifiers simple.... Something alike 2N3055 in enormous quantities....capacitor coupled...no CCS, no Long Tails, and also lots of feedback (i do not like...but i know it is needed)....no regulated power supplies....nothing special.
In those years i saw a movie called "Patton"...about war, about General Patton and war tanks....well.... sound was incredible...beautifull deep bass (enormous cinema...and walls with a lot of cloth.... velvet and some good absorbing material)... pretty highs.... when Patton tank advanced into my direction, i jumped into the floor and i try to protect me....was realistic!... and technology had not double differential... hiper simetrical... Super Hi Speed RF transistors...nothing about that...and sounded perfect, detailed...clapping was clapping...rain sound was rain sound...wisper was wisper...wind noise was wind noise...all analog...nothing digital..... digital those times my finger only (and busy always...hehe...imagine me an my girl.... dark Cinema!.....hehe...... finger used to eat Peanuts!).... take a look in my eyes in the avatar..you will capture that i was terrible...and i really am now a days (a little damaged of course!)
Well, those old guys had ears.... and they heard alive Orchestra too....despite no long tails, special feedback, error corrections, phase inverters... splitters, drivers, direct coupling, hi Speed, DC circuits, VBE multipliers (diodes do the same...or produce same sound...and have more junctions to receive heat and work to reduce bias)...not stabilized supply, no FETs, no GMosfet....no switching supply....nothing!...rude enormous condensers...full of oil inside.... some exploding.and with leakage..and sounded nice..had not Silver Mica, nor Polipropilene...Mylar, ...all ceramics and oil paper and aluminium foil....and sounded good!
I want to re-construct something this way...to check if sound really evolute...as i heard yesterday a tube Mac Instosh amplifier... a Pickering Pickup.... Some old Whaferdale speakers..an enormous and ugly long Play plastic disc....and i return home kicking all sound in from of me... strongly deceptive i was with top high end technologie.
As music is feelings.... you capture feelings!...brain helped a lot, you have to give brain small work to decode that information.
I do not think high tech. kiss can be better than old kiss.... modern perfums and lips lubricants cannot make you kiss better than in the sixties or seventies.... despite the "baton" has brigth.... non drying components, special taste of Cherry and everything you can imagine...also cannot let you painted.....MY GOD!,.... THOSE KISSING MARKS were wonderfull!
Baton is Lip stick
regards,
Carlos
Oh!... i was forgeting..thank you again JPnascim.
Have you another Gradiente schematic...older than this one?
Well Epupa, those times, speaker had not acoustic suspension.... speaker enclosure used tuned ducts or some ports.
Speaker had not big compliance too, and drivers are nothing special.... magnets not so big...and speaker diafragm hard to move.
Enormous Cinemas....leather chairs.... you enter and go descending.... this way, a tall man in front of you did not disturbed you...confortable seats...and a real surround sound.... all speakers inside walls... around you.... 100 meters long cinema...screen more than 30 meters long.... Cinerama, Superscope....70 milimeters movies!
And sound was wonderfull...i was in the technical area those days,i was there visiting..... amplifier 300 hundred watts, 2 units..stereo only!... dolby C Professional to reduce noise...hehe.
Amplifiers simple.... Something alike 2N3055 in enormous quantities....capacitor coupled...no CCS, no Long Tails, and also lots of feedback (i do not like...but i know it is needed)....no regulated power supplies....nothing special.
In those years i saw a movie called "Patton"...about war, about General Patton and war tanks....well.... sound was incredible...beautifull deep bass (enormous cinema...and walls with a lot of cloth.... velvet and some good absorbing material)... pretty highs.... when Patton tank advanced into my direction, i jumped into the floor and i try to protect me....was realistic!... and technology had not double differential... hiper simetrical... Super Hi Speed RF transistors...nothing about that...and sounded perfect, detailed...clapping was clapping...rain sound was rain sound...wisper was wisper...wind noise was wind noise...all analog...nothing digital..... digital those times my finger only (and busy always...hehe...imagine me an my girl.... dark Cinema!.....hehe...... finger used to eat Peanuts!).... take a look in my eyes in the avatar..you will capture that i was terrible...and i really am now a days (a little damaged of course!)
Well, those old guys had ears.... and they heard alive Orchestra too....despite no long tails, special feedback, error corrections, phase inverters... splitters, drivers, direct coupling, hi Speed, DC circuits, VBE multipliers (diodes do the same...or produce same sound...and have more junctions to receive heat and work to reduce bias)...not stabilized supply, no FETs, no GMosfet....no switching supply....nothing!...rude enormous condensers...full of oil inside.... some exploding.and with leakage..and sounded nice..had not Silver Mica, nor Polipropilene...Mylar, ...all ceramics and oil paper and aluminium foil....and sounded good!
I want to re-construct something this way...to check if sound really evolute...as i heard yesterday a tube Mac Instosh amplifier... a Pickering Pickup.... Some old Whaferdale speakers..an enormous and ugly long Play plastic disc....and i return home kicking all sound in from of me... strongly deceptive i was with top high end technologie.
As music is feelings.... you capture feelings!...brain helped a lot, you have to give brain small work to decode that information.
I do not think high tech. kiss can be better than old kiss.... modern perfums and lips lubricants cannot make you kiss better than in the sixties or seventies.... despite the "baton" has brigth.... non drying components, special taste of Cherry and everything you can imagine...also cannot let you painted.....MY GOD!,.... THOSE KISSING MARKS were wonderfull!
Baton is Lip stick
regards,
Carlos
Yes, exactly this one, have the values too?
I found Ion Obelisk, in our forum, using thopologie that have some characteristics alike this one.
Now i am checking voltages in simulator to do calculation to use one supply that i have here.
Having complete diagram, send me please.
nanabrother@yahoo.com
Carlos
I found Ion Obelisk, in our forum, using thopologie that have some characteristics alike this one.
Now i am checking voltages in simulator to do calculation to use one supply that i have here.
Having complete diagram, send me please.
nanabrother@yahoo.com
Carlos
I re-visited.... this word is now used ofter...so i search forum and i found an old..
Thread, and this thread was about one interesting amplifier...those countries....Eastern European countries...old Soviet Union countries.... wonderfull that they are with us!
And i apreciate very much the "old fashioned way" it was constructed...wonderfull sound destroyer, the enormous electrolitic in the output....destroy nothing...just a myth!..sometimes distort producing smother sound..hehe.
See that amplifier guys....i made it last year.... one friend came here and ask it for him..... damned.... asked for a gift.... as i am a complete idiot related my friends...he is now listening that good amplifier.... it has wonderfull distortions, perfect non-linearities, enormous kind THD also....ahahahaha!
The schematic will be attached.... the amplifier name was Ìon Obelisk..... starting with the name, all is pretty good there...have astonishingly kind distortions.
Carlos
Thread, and this thread was about one interesting amplifier...those countries....Eastern European countries...old Soviet Union countries.... wonderfull that they are with us!
And i apreciate very much the "old fashioned way" it was constructed...wonderfull sound destroyer, the enormous electrolitic in the output....destroy nothing...just a myth!..sometimes distort producing smother sound..hehe.
See that amplifier guys....i made it last year.... one friend came here and ask it for him..... damned.... asked for a gift.... as i am a complete idiot related my friends...he is now listening that good amplifier.... it has wonderfull distortions, perfect non-linearities, enormous kind THD also....ahahahaha!
The schematic will be attached.... the amplifier name was Ìon Obelisk..... starting with the name, all is pretty good there...have astonishingly kind distortions.
Carlos
Attachments
Here is the whole article of the Ion Obelisk.
With schema, parts list, and specification. Sorry, but the text is hungarian. A lot of hungarian DIYer loves this amplifier. Some of them thinks, that this is the best sounding DIY-amp ever published in Hungary's hifi magazines.
I cannot attach the files, because they are too big.
I hope that you people from the nice Brazil, from USA, etc... will can reach the files.
(sorry for my bad english...)
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283476.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283477.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283478.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283479.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283480.jpg
let's copy the URLs in yours Internet Explorer.
With schema, parts list, and specification. Sorry, but the text is hungarian. A lot of hungarian DIYer loves this amplifier. Some of them thinks, that this is the best sounding DIY-amp ever published in Hungary's hifi magazines.
I cannot attach the files, because they are too big.
I hope that you people from the nice Brazil, from USA, etc... will can reach the files.
(sorry for my bad english...)
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283476.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283477.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283478.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283479.jpg
http://img.tar.hu/pocsaizoltan/img/5283480.jpg
let's copy the URLs in yours Internet Explorer.
I have copied...good amplifier, and your English
Is wonderfull considering mine.
Me good....me interested!.... i was reading my posts!...my God!
awfull!
Your English is clear.... gramatic good.... interesting words.... sentences well organized.....good!
regards and thanks.
How is regards and thanks in your language...can you write in english...some fonetically expression,or some trick, to turn easy to pronouce the same way as you do ?.... U=You
Carlos
Is wonderfull considering mine.
Me good....me interested!.... i was reading my posts!...my God!
awfull!
Your English is clear.... gramatic good.... interesting words.... sentences well organized.....good!
regards and thanks.
How is regards and thanks in your language...can you write in english...some fonetically expression,or some trick, to turn easy to pronouce the same way as you do ?.... U=You
Carlos
Re: I was remenbering old days.... seventies... enormous Cinema Epupa!
Hi Carlos ! How are you doing ?
Well, I have this schematics catalogue from Gradiente and it also contains schematics for some STR (850 and 1 or 2 more). It also contains schematics for others like MODEL 1050 and etc. These are higher powered versions of MODEL 900, circuit essentially the same but some minor modifications (Vbe multiplier and etc.). I can send a complete list to you later and you can chose.
Also, I notice you are having trouble with component values. I know the scanned schematic I sent to you is pretty hard to read in numerous sections. do you want me to send values to you ?
Best regards,
João Pedro
destroyer X said:
Hi Carlos ! How are you doing ?
Well, I have this schematics catalogue from Gradiente and it also contains schematics for some STR (850 and 1 or 2 more). It also contains schematics for others like MODEL 1050 and etc. These are higher powered versions of MODEL 900, circuit essentially the same but some minor modifications (Vbe multiplier and etc.). I can send a complete list to you later and you can chose.
Also, I notice you are having trouble with component values. I know the scanned schematic I sent to you is pretty hard to read in numerous sections. do you want me to send values to you ?
Best regards,
João Pedro
No John, i could read values, and the values not clear i discovered them when
I put it into the Simulator.
I tried to avoid the Op Amp.... as i do not like them, normally they are noisy, those old models are hissing.
So i tried to bias that circuit without the Op amp, and i could do it, but assembled real life it was unstable (no feedback) and sounded bad too.
I am really finding something older in style, i wanna have some capacitors to couple some stages, in special the output, a very old styled circuit is wanted and searched...some return to good old days , to have a good comparison related our science developments in audio design.
I made, some monthes ago, one unit that was published in our forum, the schematic, posted by Eastern European guys, was the Ion Obelisk unit, that was assembled by me, and i apreciate its sound, of course, accepting that was something already beated design, but sounding nice, despite of that.
A friend borrow it from me..... borrow from "now to eternity".... some "no returning" travell...Paulinho will not return this amplifier to me...he loved it, and Paulinho is a very good and old friend, his value is something alike a brother.... and he want it....so, he will have it.
I will construct another one to my use, but next week maybe, as i am with visits in my home, and i have to give them my attention, i cannot stay all morning ,or evening, assembling amplifiers...a little busy while giving them attention.... family, having tourism here asking me to go with them to touristic sites.
If you have something in this old style, inside your schematic stock or schematic book, some circuit that do not have differential input, using single polarity supply, only plus and ground, electrolitic condenser coupled output, so, this one will be interesting to me to have the schematic.
But do not tryed to be fast, as i know you are busy because University, so, having time, next week, send some to my mail.
Well, you already informed that i have my decision about what to assemble... will be Íon Obelisk using TIP142 and TIP147 , but your schematic, and your mails, are always welcome.
regards,
Carlos
I put it into the Simulator.
I tried to avoid the Op Amp.... as i do not like them, normally they are noisy, those old models are hissing.
So i tried to bias that circuit without the Op amp, and i could do it, but assembled real life it was unstable (no feedback) and sounded bad too.
I am really finding something older in style, i wanna have some capacitors to couple some stages, in special the output, a very old styled circuit is wanted and searched...some return to good old days , to have a good comparison related our science developments in audio design.
I made, some monthes ago, one unit that was published in our forum, the schematic, posted by Eastern European guys, was the Ion Obelisk unit, that was assembled by me, and i apreciate its sound, of course, accepting that was something already beated design, but sounding nice, despite of that.
A friend borrow it from me..... borrow from "now to eternity".... some "no returning" travell...Paulinho will not return this amplifier to me...he loved it, and Paulinho is a very good and old friend, his value is something alike a brother.... and he want it....so, he will have it.
I will construct another one to my use, but next week maybe, as i am with visits in my home, and i have to give them my attention, i cannot stay all morning ,or evening, assembling amplifiers...a little busy while giving them attention.... family, having tourism here asking me to go with them to touristic sites.
If you have something in this old style, inside your schematic stock or schematic book, some circuit that do not have differential input, using single polarity supply, only plus and ground, electrolitic condenser coupled output, so, this one will be interesting to me to have the schematic.
But do not tryed to be fast, as i know you are busy because University, so, having time, next week, send some to my mail.
Well, you already informed that i have my decision about what to assemble... will be Íon Obelisk using TIP142 and TIP147 , but your schematic, and your mails, are always welcome.
regards,
Carlos
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