Amplifiers do not sound the same, there are good, bad and terrible units.
The mistery may be the "conversation", between the amplifier and it's load.... the inductance, capacitance and resistance may create some strange load to amplifier, some standing waves may appear in the wires, the transmission line, that has also resistance and capacitance when too long, as two pieces of metal, having some distance between them create the capacitance effect.... 1 inch, and 2 twisted wires can create 4 picofarads, capacitance...method used to tune very high frequency transmitters.
The impedance in the amplifier output versus speaker impedance....lower to higher use to be very good, the opposite is problem, we all know that.
I do not know if someone made research on that.... i tried once, and i could use a double T filter between amplifier and speaker and reduce standing waves to zero...i used a reflectometer with diodes...but could not perceive differences hearing....maybe measuring...but as i am not a Wave form monitor, i did not care about waveforms that time....but was an error, maybe, something that i could not hear could appear in some instruments...and this can represent some start to re-evaluate that mismatch.
Speaker also do not sound the same... even a good amplifier must find his good match, this way, when buyng of constructing some, contact the designer, to have informs related e speaker system he used to evaluate.
regards,
Carlos
The mistery may be the "conversation", between the amplifier and it's load.... the inductance, capacitance and resistance may create some strange load to amplifier, some standing waves may appear in the wires, the transmission line, that has also resistance and capacitance when too long, as two pieces of metal, having some distance between them create the capacitance effect.... 1 inch, and 2 twisted wires can create 4 picofarads, capacitance...method used to tune very high frequency transmitters.
The impedance in the amplifier output versus speaker impedance....lower to higher use to be very good, the opposite is problem, we all know that.
I do not know if someone made research on that.... i tried once, and i could use a double T filter between amplifier and speaker and reduce standing waves to zero...i used a reflectometer with diodes...but could not perceive differences hearing....maybe measuring...but as i am not a Wave form monitor, i did not care about waveforms that time....but was an error, maybe, something that i could not hear could appear in some instruments...and this can represent some start to re-evaluate that mismatch.
Speaker also do not sound the same... even a good amplifier must find his good match, this way, when buyng of constructing some, contact the designer, to have informs related e speaker system he used to evaluate.
regards,
Carlos
MikeB said:
It's not audible?
It was not audible.
This is what distinguishes a good system from a bad one.
The human brain has the capability to "fill" the gaps, that's why you can listen to music on a portable radio.
But your brain is working hard, if you are trying to follow the music.
A good system allows you to follow everything in a relaxed way, everything is clear as water.
If I can listen to sounds that I could not hear before, I consider that a big improvement.
One has to follow the music and let it flow, you need a method to evaluate.
That's what differentiates an experienced listener from the crowd.
MikeB, your words are rigth, also ideas, but there's something that i already did not
I did not checked the idea i have that the brain is filling the gaps....something that are not appearing to my ears, may passed from some "processing" brain system of correction of gaps, some failures may be covered.... resulting in auditive fadigue... turning you tired...but could not test that in laboratory, had not time enougth when studying Psychology in University.
Believing in that....may be some "feeling", more than tested theory...only believing in that, those errors, not perceive by the conscience turn important...of course, the alternative, not believing, is that we do not need to bother about that.
I am already in doubts, and i think this is good someway, as not believing strongly in nothing, i am ready to test, to study to hear other people, to discuss and to search the "true".
Carlos FM, make your words my words, thank you.
Carlos
I did not checked the idea i have that the brain is filling the gaps....something that are not appearing to my ears, may passed from some "processing" brain system of correction of gaps, some failures may be covered.... resulting in auditive fadigue... turning you tired...but could not test that in laboratory, had not time enougth when studying Psychology in University.
Believing in that....may be some "feeling", more than tested theory...only believing in that, those errors, not perceive by the conscience turn important...of course, the alternative, not believing, is that we do not need to bother about that.
I am already in doubts, and i think this is good someway, as not believing strongly in nothing, i am ready to test, to study to hear other people, to discuss and to search the "true".
Carlos FM, make your words my words, thank you.
Carlos
I used to say that many times, i think this is clear to understand what i mean.
When you are in love, deeply in love, full o passion to someone.
When you met this girl:
All the environment noises, the life noises disappear, if music is playing it is erased.... you enter in another dimension of time, as a hi speed movie, you capture alike some slow motion her lips moving and talking.... her words are music to you..... sometimes you start to hear music, the one you like... every word and expression is recorded for ever in you Brain, i do remember 40 years ago feeling as a color movie, with better sound than DVD or any other media... also i remember the perfume.... and the energy passing into my body, i remember i stopped to breath (maybe this made the "delirium").
If you can hear music, different than the real music playing, erasing and covering street noises...if you can enter another timing .... alike your feeling when drugs are used to prepare you to some cirurgy.....if Brain can do this.....no doubts it can create sounds, correct sounds....in the direct proportion your feelings.
Love is beautifull, if you had not experienced that... sorry, must find "the girl" again. This emotion is definitive..... once in you life, she will never be forget, she can return 40 years older....you will feel again.... i checked that.
Carlos
When you are in love, deeply in love, full o passion to someone.
When you met this girl:
All the environment noises, the life noises disappear, if music is playing it is erased.... you enter in another dimension of time, as a hi speed movie, you capture alike some slow motion her lips moving and talking.... her words are music to you..... sometimes you start to hear music, the one you like... every word and expression is recorded for ever in you Brain, i do remember 40 years ago feeling as a color movie, with better sound than DVD or any other media... also i remember the perfume.... and the energy passing into my body, i remember i stopped to breath (maybe this made the "delirium").
If you can hear music, different than the real music playing, erasing and covering street noises...if you can enter another timing .... alike your feeling when drugs are used to prepare you to some cirurgy.....if Brain can do this.....no doubts it can create sounds, correct sounds....in the direct proportion your feelings.
Love is beautifull, if you had not experienced that... sorry, must find "the girl" again. This emotion is definitive..... once in you life, she will never be forget, she can return 40 years older....you will feel again.... i checked that.
Carlos
Carlos, the analogy of the portable radio is because it has no bass, no detail, but you can still listen to that music, and if you know it, your brain seams to "fill" what's missing.
Of course you are not fully understanding the music, and if you concentrate in trying to follow the music with this bad quality you soon get tired.
If you are trying to follow but can't even understand the lyrics properly, you will soon get tired and switch the deam thing off.
Comparing two amps, if on one of them you have sounds that you didn't pick with the other, even if the difference is subtle, it is already a big improvement IMHO.
I've heard differences between amps that were subtle but in the end a complete instrument was missing.
Yes, a piano in the background was completely "masked" by the other instruments, it was imperceptible.
After listening to the real thing you know there's a piano there.
When you listen to that track again on a bad system you can't stand it, because you know the piano is missing.
On an AB test, blind or sighted, you have to concentrate on the music and not on the gear.
Music is much more than bass, midband and treble.
That's why I say that a blind test should have the same conclusions as a sighted test.
Ignore the gear, concentrate on what you are listening.
Even if the best sounding amp is an uncased bunch of wires.
Of course you are not fully understanding the music, and if you concentrate in trying to follow the music with this bad quality you soon get tired.
If you are trying to follow but can't even understand the lyrics properly, you will soon get tired and switch the deam thing off.
Comparing two amps, if on one of them you have sounds that you didn't pick with the other, even if the difference is subtle, it is already a big improvement IMHO.
I've heard differences between amps that were subtle but in the end a complete instrument was missing.
Yes, a piano in the background was completely "masked" by the other instruments, it was imperceptible.
After listening to the real thing you know there's a piano there.
When you listen to that track again on a bad system you can't stand it, because you know the piano is missing.
On an AB test, blind or sighted, you have to concentrate on the music and not on the gear.
Music is much more than bass, midband and treble.
That's why I say that a blind test should have the same conclusions as a sighted test.
Ignore the gear, concentrate on what you are listening.
Even if the best sounding amp is an uncased bunch of wires.
Actinic Rays...
That is why some amplifiers come out better in certain tests than others. If you screen out the Actinic Rays then the results of the tests are skewed.
You happen to receive a lower amount of Gruonteon level when your eyes are closed, btw.
So, keep this in mind whenever you read a paper that claims to have definitive results in a "double blind test"! Did they even mention the effects of Actinic Rays??
_-_-bear
That is why some amplifiers come out better in certain tests than others. If you screen out the Actinic Rays then the results of the tests are skewed.
You happen to receive a lower amount of Gruonteon level when your eyes are closed, btw.
So, keep this in mind whenever you read a paper that claims to have definitive results in a "double blind test"! Did they even mention the effects of Actinic Rays??
_-_-bear
A bad comparison made..the youtube video link attached..method suggested and comments
about that video below:
A to B test is a very powerfull tool to compare two audio equipments.
Those audio equipments can be speakers, amplifiers and all audio
generating devices.
The main idea is to avoid prejudice, so, the person subjected to the
testing, the evaluator, or the evaluators, must not use intelligence.
He cannot know what is beeing tested, the brands envolved, the price
envolved, anything about what is going on… cannot see the parts
under test…. Has only to listen and to select A or B when asked
The question is..”which one you like the most?”
And will answer when asked only.
The evaluators must not contact one each other before or during the
A to B testing, they must be selected randomically into the population,
and may represent the population about the age and sex…using the
target population proportion between male and female and age levels
too…. They must be submited in group or alone…the listening room
must be dark, not to have distractions, better to use something to block
their vision… they cannot talk one each other, they must sit confortable,
they cannot be sick, having pains, or hungry or having some strong
emotional problems, cannot be depressive or maniac… this is blind
testing..hardly controled method.
The evaluator will have rigth and left buttons… his hand will be positioned
by auxiliary people into the buttons, and they will be pressing them to test…
only first input will be memorized by the system..cannot cancell, or pause
the test..asked to decide, them they have to press immediatelly.
Audio options, A option and B option will be switched without noises and
will have the same audio program, the same volume set… and this is previous
monitored by sound pressure meter and adjusted…audio program have all the
same maximum level as while recording limiters where use to hold peaks..so..
volume peaks remains the same to all music played and sound effect played…
average volume may variate a little depending the test beeing made.
This is to avoid our natural preference for louder units compared to others…
louder is perceive as better…. Also how pretty an equipment can be influences
the decision, how expensive influences too…so..nothing is shown, nothing is
told… evaluators are invited not to use their brain, not to think, just to listen
and select buttons to point the one they like the most and this is all.
You will see, in the test show into this youtube video link attached, they knew
in advance the test objectives (cannot), they could see what would be compared
(cannot), they know the one is famous, the one is expensive, and the ones is cheap,
they have listened in advance all those speakers under testing, also the singer….so,
there’s a lot of wrong things on that… the test is not blind anymore…the evaluators,
this man and that woman, knows already how is the sound when the singer use
Acoustics only… they know how the KEF speaker sounds (too much treble, low bass, distorted and aggressive..having a clear sonic signature easy to detect if you have listened it before).
Also they have not adjust the sound pressure levels using instruments..it is clear the
singer is not loud enougth compare to others..the acoustical part is not loud…. And the
KEF is clearly louder….this gives some advantage to the KEF, as louder is better for
a lot of people..in the reality, they wanted to smash KEF and promote the Mordaunt short..for sure a paid publicity, not well made, not fair….. I really think the Mordaunt
is the better one, but the test show it much better than it really is… fake test.
Here the youtube video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZHRPgIY0b0
about that video below:
A to B test is a very powerfull tool to compare two audio equipments.
Those audio equipments can be speakers, amplifiers and all audio
generating devices.
The main idea is to avoid prejudice, so, the person subjected to the
testing, the evaluator, or the evaluators, must not use intelligence.
He cannot know what is beeing tested, the brands envolved, the price
envolved, anything about what is going on… cannot see the parts
under test…. Has only to listen and to select A or B when asked
The question is..”which one you like the most?”
And will answer when asked only.
The evaluators must not contact one each other before or during the
A to B testing, they must be selected randomically into the population,
and may represent the population about the age and sex…using the
target population proportion between male and female and age levels
too…. They must be submited in group or alone…the listening room
must be dark, not to have distractions, better to use something to block
their vision… they cannot talk one each other, they must sit confortable,
they cannot be sick, having pains, or hungry or having some strong
emotional problems, cannot be depressive or maniac… this is blind
testing..hardly controled method.
The evaluator will have rigth and left buttons… his hand will be positioned
by auxiliary people into the buttons, and they will be pressing them to test…
only first input will be memorized by the system..cannot cancell, or pause
the test..asked to decide, them they have to press immediatelly.
Audio options, A option and B option will be switched without noises and
will have the same audio program, the same volume set… and this is previous
monitored by sound pressure meter and adjusted…audio program have all the
same maximum level as while recording limiters where use to hold peaks..so..
volume peaks remains the same to all music played and sound effect played…
average volume may variate a little depending the test beeing made.
This is to avoid our natural preference for louder units compared to others…
louder is perceive as better…. Also how pretty an equipment can be influences
the decision, how expensive influences too…so..nothing is shown, nothing is
told… evaluators are invited not to use their brain, not to think, just to listen
and select buttons to point the one they like the most and this is all.
You will see, in the test show into this youtube video link attached, they knew
in advance the test objectives (cannot), they could see what would be compared
(cannot), they know the one is famous, the one is expensive, and the ones is cheap,
they have listened in advance all those speakers under testing, also the singer….so,
there’s a lot of wrong things on that… the test is not blind anymore…the evaluators,
this man and that woman, knows already how is the sound when the singer use
Acoustics only… they know how the KEF speaker sounds (too much treble, low bass, distorted and aggressive..having a clear sonic signature easy to detect if you have listened it before).
Also they have not adjust the sound pressure levels using instruments..it is clear the
singer is not loud enougth compare to others..the acoustical part is not loud…. And the
KEF is clearly louder….this gives some advantage to the KEF, as louder is better for
a lot of people..in the reality, they wanted to smash KEF and promote the Mordaunt short..for sure a paid publicity, not well made, not fair….. I really think the Mordaunt
is the better one, but the test show it much better than it really is… fake test.
Here the youtube video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZHRPgIY0b0
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