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Markings ant types of old capacitors
Markings ant types of old capacitors
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Old 25th November 2021, 02:57 PM   #11
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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Markings ant types of old capacitors
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcha View Post
But my questions are :
What are the differences between a 220F 35V grey marked CEW85L (I suppose 85 is for 85 and L for long ?) and another 47F 25V one marked CERB ? Different quality (like for instance a Nichicon FG and a standard one) ?

And why a grey 47F 25V CERB and an orange 47F 16V CERB ?

And what is the Sanyo light blue ? I read somewhere they might be solid aluminium type?
It's good to ask and question but try not to get to hung up on the type markings. The amp is 100% conventional and it does not need exotic caps.

As I said earlier, I have a feeling that some orange sleeved caps might be very low leakage types. Rotel used to use those but they were marked as such.

Look at the blue Sanyo cap carefully. Does it have a + and - marking?

If you post the circuit location reference numbers of the two 47uF caps and the Sanyo one I'll look on the circuit and see whether anything stands out. _
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:46 PM   #12
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Markings ant types of old capacitors
Hi alcha,
The questions you are asking are really pointless. Pioneer did not use good capacitors for starters, so any brand of currently available name-brand capacitors will be better by a large margin. Never forget that the parts installed in a product have more to do with availability and price than anything else. It's best not to obsess over capacitor types in commercial products in general. In better products often may be a reason, but not in a Pioneer.

Now for the important thing. The leads go through a rubber seal in the bottom of a radial electrolytic capacitor. You must form the leads, supporting the lead between the rubber seal and the bend point. If you just jam the leads through (like 99.9% of people out there do) you may well break the seal between the rubber and the lead. This will lead to accelerated failure of the capacitor. Try and be careful to buy replacements that have the correct spacing. You will often be well advised to buy a higher voltage rated part. That also helps you get into parts that fit as most parts have become smaller over the years.

The low leakage caps I have seen have a layer of epoxy over the rubber seal. Mooly is right about everything he posted, as have been others.

So take a deep breath, get decent capacitors and most importantly - install them properly.

-Chris
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Old 26th November 2021, 04:30 PM   #13
alcha is offline alcha  France
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I want to thank Mooly and anatech for their replies which confirm what I was thinking !
With reference to tne service manual list of components and an article in an old Tuning Fork, I have found that some caps (the big ones for instance) are in the "aluminium electrolytics" category, some are "tantalum capacitors" and the blue ones are "solid aluminium" types.
So, they all are going to be replaced by good ones, of serious brands for serious retailers, and f**k the models !!
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Old 26th November 2021, 05:32 PM   #14
indianajo is offline indianajo  United States
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So, they all are going to be replaced by good ones, of serious brands for serious retailers, and f**k the models !!
Good brands make 3 to 7 year garbage if that is what you want. Most repairmen do.
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Old 26th November 2021, 07:33 PM   #15
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Markings ant types of old capacitors
Hi indianajo,
Can you clarify what you are saying please? There may be some misunderstanding here.
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Old 26th November 2021, 08:17 PM   #16
indianajo is offline indianajo  United States
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Post #2. 1000 hour & 500 hour caps are volume sellers. For people that build then test an amp then put it in the closet. Or repair an amp and give it back to the owner, hoping for another $$ service call when the next cap fails. The 1000's are "quality" caps from reputable manufacturers, but not long life. I re-e-capped an amp 4 times in 22 years for low power using parts store caps like sprague atomlytic or CDE yellow. 3000 hour up caps costing 30% more can last 20 years. 12000 hr caps are available under 100 uf. Even at my age (71), I might be listening to recorded music 35 more years. One of my current amps cs800s is **** good, .03% HD, 260 w/ch. Another amp has no fan, is .1% HD but there is a plan to get it to .05%. The M-2600 is running 18 hours some days. Full of new long life caps. I donate other reworked amps to churches running ****ese **** amps that failed in 8 to 15 years. Others won't take anything used, it has to be new however many times that purchase has to be repeated. See sentence 3 about the reputation of "repaired" equipment.
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Old 26th November 2021, 08:47 PM   #17
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Markings ant types of old capacitors
Hi indianajo,
Well, you can't judge other service people over their choice of a 2,000 or 3,000 hour capacitor for equipment in intermittent use in a normal consumer setting. For one, running temperatures are generally lower in solid state equipment compared to tube gear. Another is that the temperatures in equipment closets are typically higher (especially in Churches) compared to many home installations after you talk to the home owner about stacking equipment or small stereo racks. In those cases, very high reliability capacitors really don't buy you much or anything. Most good quality capacitors will greatly exceed their rated service life.

If I am repairing equipment that runs all the time, like paging or Church equipment, they will get the longer rated parts, and they will pay for the higher cost of same. Its all about matching the product to the customer.

I see some equipment every 10 years or so (people forget) after I repair it as suggested maintenance. I have yet to see a single capacitor fail that I installed - ever. Mind you, I form the leads properly and always have. If you just jam in a high reliability capacitor, you will damage the seal and it will fail before its time just like a lower rated capacitor.

So with the reality of economics that affect the price you charge for a repair, I don't think you can rightfully look down on someone else's work that used a good quality part just because it wasn't the very most reliable one you could buy. I would say they are better matching the part to intended use and that their work is no less reliable as long as they install the parts properly.

Your workmanship is the final arbiter as to whether you've done a good job or not as long as you are using decent, good quality parts for the intended application. Its easy to take the high road, but you cost your customers a lot more money that way when it might not matter one little bit.

As for 500 hour caps, never even bought one or knew they existed. Even 1,000 hour caps are something I have never bought. For all my prototypes I have used the same quality parts I use in good repairs. They all still work today, even stuff I designed and built in 1977 and 1976.

Where does one even buy a 500 hour rated capacitor???

-Chris
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