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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
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Old 2nd March 2021, 11:06 PM   #21
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
I've just realised that, had I bought my sub new in 1990 it would have been £1600 (for a 12" servostatik unit). So accounting for inflation that would be around £3300 today.(I got a good deal second hand as the controller was missing). Now I am not a sub officianado so this may have been gouging at the time, but does make me think how many subs these days have to be horribly underengineered to hit the price points?
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Old 2nd March 2021, 11:14 PM   #22
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
Because subs work over a very restricted frequency range, they normally don’t need to have large power amplifiers.

This does not excuse shoddy design/workmanship.

To understand this intuitively, consider a 2 tone IMD test. You cannot put both stimulus signals in at full input sensitivity because you will overload the amp - it goes into clipping.

My 100 W B&W sub draws 50W max from the plug point.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 11:21 PM   #23
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
Except they are generally very inefficient and the Fx on movies are very loud (normal target market)
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Old 3rd March 2021, 12:27 AM   #24
ostripper is offline ostripper  United States
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Default There is no excuse for any of this - just outright greed.

(below) is under 40$ in semi's.

The input stage uses less current than most op-amps - needs no heatsinks.
Use any 100V to-92's and any 150V to-126 devices.
The output stage has been built and lasts 30 years - it is my old HK
integrated amp EF3 (AKA "slewmaster").

Assured >50ppm full power 20 - 150hz @2R load.
R13/C7/D3 "trick" allows for all day clipping (till doomsday).

I was looking at the M&K woofers and some of parts express's better
offerings. Why would you pair a POS dayton plate amp or any of
these OEM outsourced garbage amps with such nice drivers. The only
good thing I have seen today was that BK plate amp.

OS
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File Type: jpg SUB-200.jpg (142.4 KB, 137 views)
Attached Files
File Type: asc SUB -200.asc (20.6 KB, 4 views)
File Type: txt KT-Cordell models.txt (58.2 KB, 5 views)
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Old 3rd March 2021, 12:46 AM   #25
ostripper is offline ostripper  United States
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Default Some humor ...

I want one of these !!! But not as a neighbor.

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Old 3rd March 2021, 12:47 AM   #26
indianajo is offline indianajo  United States
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Been staying away from the whole powered speaker market, apparently for good reasons. Where does the heat go? How do they cram all that in there? Smoke & mirrors apparently.
BTW the only one I know of good to 20 HZ x00 W 24/7 is a Petersen electro-music products device costing $2000. http://www.petersonemp.com/products/pdf/LOWNOTETONE.PDF
Made for filling up cathedrals with 32' sound for congregations that don't have $20000 for a real rank, or the cube necessary for a real wooden bourden rank. All the 18" Peavey etc I know of roll off @ 40 hz.
I play piano. Through psycho-acoustics (beat freqnencies of wound wire) my $3600 sohmer console plays down to 27.5 hz. I should expect less of my speaker? I play organ, too. The H182 goes down to 65.4 with a 15" woofer.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 05:40 AM   #27
ostripper is offline ostripper  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
Because subs work over a very restricted frequency range, they normally donít need to have large power amplifiers.

This does not excuse shoddy design/workmanship.

To understand this intuitively, consider a 2 tone IMD test. You cannot put both stimulus signals in at full input sensitivity because you will overload the amp - it goes into clipping.

My 100 W B&W sub draws 50W max from the plug point.
Class D , of course. B& W is expensive.

Nice "icepower" layout in the B/W plates (below).

OS
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Old 3rd March 2021, 11:25 AM   #28
mcd99 is offline mcd99  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
The only good thing I have seen today was that BK plate amp.

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They have some quality stuff. My BK BSPBV 500 plate amps havenít missed a beat in over a decade. 500w into 4R Overkill maybe but I donít see myself replacing them anytime soon. They even have TO-3 output devices... Mine arrived in MDF boxes that I still use to this day to store stuff in.

The PS1000 amp schematic is poor. Does explain why it couldnít drive an Aliante 12 ltd subwoofer. Another great thing about the PS1000 was that the ports chuffed. Give me BK sub any day!
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Old 3rd March 2021, 06:20 PM   #29
jaycee is offline jaycee  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
M - K sub's go for 1500 - 3K $. V series has the class A/B amps.
Ebay has V75 4 device A/B for 175$ used.
Miller & Kreisel M&K V-1250 Subwoofer Power Amplifier | eBay

This M and K amp looks better than yours. Glass epoxy PCB and what looks like
10Kuf + caps @ 63V. Acceptable , but M & K's prices are crazy.

OS
Guess thats before they outsourced to China. This is from an M&K SB8. Nice cabinet, nice drive unit, but the electronics are shite! The owner is happy to pay me ~£100 to build replacement electronics. I was actually tempted to just get some class D module...
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Old 4th March 2021, 06:18 PM   #30
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
I opened up my B&W ASW610. Its beautifully made inside. There's and input/signal conditioning/DSP board (all SMD) and output of that feeds into a single B&O ICE board that integrates a 45W Class D amp and SMPSU. Lots of foam around the interconnect cables etc to prevent rattling etc. The tag on the back says 'Designed in the UK, Manufactured in China

I paid £500 for it new - I don't feel ripped off having looked inside.

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