Power Amplifier for in-home use

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Hello,

Looking for a power amplifier to drive speakers for around ~150 euros price. Trying to find a proper one that could drive either subwoofer or any other loudspeaker. At the moment I have 6 options (links below). I'm open for alternative options and would love to hear which one and why to choose that or this amplifier.

Behringer KM1700 – Thomann Lithuania
the t.amp E-800 – Thomann Lithuania
Behringer KM750 – Thomann Lithuania
Behringer A800 – Thomann Lithuania
the t.amp TA 450 MK-X – Thomann Lithuania
https://www.thomann.de/intl/lt/behringer_nx1000.htm
 
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Behringers are medium life, and are not repairable except by factory authroized service shop. The schematics & parts list are copywrited and not available.
I suggest you buy a used Peavey PV-4c or CS800x or CS800s. I'm having good luck with these, and am able to repair the broken ones I buy for parts or repair on ebay. HD .1% on the first and .03% on the second and third. I'm listening now to the PV-4c which I paid $32 for with freight and put $80 in new parts in.
If you have to buy new, look at this thread on groupdiy.com: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
Mentioned favorably are QSC, dynacord, hypex, bryston.
 
Behringers are medium life, and are not repairable except by factory authroized service shop. The schematics & parts list are copywrited and not available.
I suggest you buy a used Peavey PV-4c or CS800x or CS800s. I'm having good luck with these, and am able to repair the broken ones I buy for parts or repair on ebay. HD .1% on the first and .03% on the second and third. I'm listening now to the PV-4c which I paid $32 for with freight and put $80 in new parts in.
If you have to buy new, look at this thread on groupdiy.com: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
Mentioned favorably are QSC, dynacord, hypex, bryston.

In my country there is no market for used power amplifiers. I could look on ebay, but that poses another problem, which is I dont have any experience on the electronic part, so if I get a broken one or it has to be fixed I'm done. The new ones you mentioned, they are way too expensive for me :(
 
The way ebay works, you have 30 days to send broken stuff back. Amps listed as "used, working" are supposed to work. So make sure you have speakers, wires, a sound source like a pocket radio. Test the amp as soon as it comes in. If okay, keep it. If not send it back for your money back. Keep the box and address label.
Broken amps sold on ebay are listed as "amp for parts or repair". I buy those and usually can repair them. I learned how out of books before the internet, starting age 8. Now there are free electronics tutorials on the internet.
I'm never done, I learn something new most days. Age 69 going on 104. Broken stuff is just a challenge to live well off recycled goods, instead of sending everything to the dump every 2 years and buy new the way the lords of commerce expect us to do it. Fixed a Samsung LED TV 2 weeks ago for $35: it was bought new with 1 year warrenty in 2017 and lasted an entire 23 months before it wouldn't turn on anymore. Fortunately there was a selection of used input boards on ebay. The new board won't won't turn off. Problem easily solved with the switch on the power strip.
 
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Entas:

There are some sites which carry Behringer schematics, mostly mixer & older ones.
Construction is cheap and not reliable, but I own Behringer stuff, speakers & mixers, and they have been working OK.

I buy also many things from Thomann and their Support is outstanding, even after expired warranty.

For home use... have You looked into those 5.1, 7.1 systems.. Pioneer, Sony, Samsung, LG stuff ?
 
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I have bought Behringer and Thomann products; they are budget products that are good enough for hobby/occasional use; quality wise they are a step above the no-brand China stuff. There is a detailed review of the Thomann E-800 here: [Review] Thomann t.amp E800 Pro PA Amplifier - [English] . It is a generic PA amplifier with a build quality that matches the price: no-name power capacitors, small fans and heatsinks, cheap volume controls. It is a good choice if you value the power capability above everything else. The reviewer is right: it would be difficult to get any more power at this price level, unless you build it yourself with china-sourced parts of shady quality. Be sure to have big speakers, because 500+500W @4ohm / 350+350W @8ohm ARE A LOT for standard home speakers. I have no direct experience on the E-800 but in my attic I have several amplifiers of this kind, pulled from PA systems that have been recently refurbished to more modern standards. I don't use them because I like acoustic music and classical, and they really sound bad with this kind of music. If you like pop music with limited dynamic range and heavy drum lines, then they may be OK.
 
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Cheap new power amps (and 150€ is cheap, especially for something delivering 2x 150-200 W) usually suffer from one or more of the following:
* audible hiss or buzz
* audible fan noise (if PA - fans are cheaper than big heatsinks, and a little airflow will go a long way)
* mechanical transformer buzz (as a result of too few windings, which does improve internal impedance but has the transformer hum and get warm even in idle)
* so-so distortion performance

Some people have pimped their t.amp S-150 MkII with a newly wound transformer to replace the buzzing stock one and some tweaks in the input circuitry to get the slightly (1 dB) too prominent mids straightened out.

Also, if your preamp equipment does not offer any kind of (impedance-)balanced output, expect all kinds of fun with ground loops, as usual when interfacing consumer gear with things from the studio/PA world.

Something like the A800 (measurements) or a Crown XLS1002 still is plenty good enough for a sub if you get the connections sorted. Sub drivers tend to have rather low sensitivity, they roll off well below the frequency ranges where hiss bothers us most, and distortion down there is not excessively critical either. So basically almost anything with a good amount of oomph and low hum levels is going to do the trick. Your main speakers are going to be more critical.

The market for inexpensive medium-powered "studio" type power amps is probably too small for anyone to step up and deliver all-round hi-fi-worthy performance, sadly.
 
Cheap new power amps (and 150€ is cheap, especially for something delivering 2x 150-200 W) usually suffer from one or more of the following:
* audible hiss or buzz
* audible fan noise (if PA - fans are cheaper than big heatsinks, and a little airflow will go a long way)
* mechanical transformer buzz (as a result of too few windings, which does improve internal impedance but has the transformer hum and get warm even in idle)
* so-so distortion performance

Some people have pimped their t.amp S-150 MkII with a newly wound transformer to replace the buzzing stock one and some tweaks in the input circuitry to get the slightly (1 dB) too prominent mids straightened out.

Also, if your preamp equipment does not offer any kind of (impedance-)balanced output, expect all kinds of fun with ground loops, as usual when interfacing consumer gear with things from the studio/PA world.

Something like the A800 (measurements) or a Crown XLS1002 still is plenty good enough for a sub if you get the connections sorted. Sub drivers tend to have rather low sensitivity, they roll off well below the frequency ranges where hiss bothers us most, and distortion down there is not excessively critical either. So basically almost anything with a good amount of oomph and low hum levels is going to do the trick. Your main speakers are going to be more critical.

The market for inexpensive medium-powered "studio" type power amps is probably too small for anyone to step up and deliver all-round hi-fi-worthy performance, sadly.


Is it safe to say if I don't need like 300-500 watts should I choose ABclass power amplifiers like:
the t.amp E-400 – Thomann Lithuania
the t.amp TA 450 MK-X – Thomann Lithuania
Will any of these deliver a sound without buzz and hizz from the PA componentss?
 
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The TA450MK-X has been reported as Hi-Fi worthy (with fans disconnected) on another forum. It apparently does have Toshiba Mosfets. Behringer A800 (Class D) is a fanless "studio" type with better overall measurements and low noise, so it seems to be a better choice as home amplifier. The quite detailed review referenced by sgrosslkass comes to the same conclusion.
 
Con't know what a DPS is. My "obsolete" pentium 5 PC produces 3.5 mm analog stereo jack signal directly from the mother board. I understand modern PC's require some sort of USB->3.5 mm stereo jack converter costing up to $200. ! All for MP3 files which are inferior IMHO sonicly to LP's.
I've found 3.5 mm (1/8") twisted pair phone plug cables work okay on line level analog signals (1.6 to 2 vac max) up to 6 m. As long as the receiving amp has 1/4 phone jack receptacles and a differential input instead of RCA jack and single input (unbalanced).
I've found RCA jack coax cables on the same signals work well up to 2 m. These are fine at that distance into RCA jack->1/4 phone plug adapters.
At 4 m RCA cables pick up RF from AM radio stations, CB radios, police band radios etc. They also can pick up hum at that distance. I've found inserting a TRS 1/4" socket quasi-balanced output mixer, after my RCA jack RIAA equipped mixer, increases noise rejection on the 4 m run to my power amp. The power amp with 1/4 phone jack input is more noise free with twisted pair cable, as opposed to the 4 m RCA plug coax cable I was using previously into an RCA jack amplifier. The RCA jack amp did not have differential (op amp) input for common mode noise rejection. Op amps were the size of a salt shaker or power vacuum tube in 1966 when the RCA jack amp was made, as IC's were not yet invented.
Speaker wire runs can be up to 17 m at 8 ohms, as long as 10 ga wire is used at that distance. Smaller wire decreases the damping factor leading to muddier bass. At 1.5 m people often use 16 ga wire successfully.
 
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Con't know what a DPS is. My "obsolete" pentium 5 PC produces 3.5 mm analog stereo jack signal directly from the mother board. I understand modern PC's require some sort of USB->3.5 mm stereo jack converter costing up to $200. ! All for MP3 files which are inferior IMHO sonicly to LP's.
I've found 3.5 mm (1/8") twisted pair phone plug cables work okay on line level analog signals (1.6 to 2 vac max) up to 6 m. As long as the receiving amp has 1/4 phone jack receptacles and a differential input instead of RCA jack and single input (unbalanced).
I've found RCA jack coax cables on the same signals work well up to 2 m. These are fine at that distance into RCA jack->1/4 phone plug adapters.
At 4 m RCA cables pick up RF from AM radio stations, CB radios, police band radios etc. They also can pick up hum at that distance. I've found inserting a TRS 1/4" socket quasi-balanced output mixer, after my RCA jack RIAA equipped mixer, increases noise rejection on the 4 m run to my power amp. The power amp with 1/4 phone jack input is more noise free with twisted pair cable, as opposed to the 4 m RCA plug coax cable I was using previously into an RCA jack amplifier. The RCA jack amp did not have differential (op amp) input for common mode noise rejection. Op amps were the size of a salt shaker or power vacuum tube in 1966 when the RCA jack amp was made, as IC's were not yet invented.
Speaker wire runs can be up to 17 m at 8 ohms, as long as 10 ga wire is used at that distance. Smaller wire decreases the damping factor leading to muddier bass. At 1.5 m people often use 16 ga wire successfully.


Thank you for information! I'm looking for shortest way possible to connect my setup.
 
Con't know what a DPS is.
A tpyo. He means this guy, a 4-in, 4-out DSP unit.

Specs: S/N >105 dB, output level +12 dBu balanced.
With the output as hot as this, a PA/studio style amplifier with input level controls is a must. OP just needs to find a good one.

OP, what kind of speakers are you using? Any idea on how loud you are typically listening?
My "obsolete" pentium 5 PC produces 3.5 mm analog stereo jack signal directly from the mother board. I understand modern PC's require some sort of USB->3.5 mm stereo jack converter costing up to $200. ! All for MP3 files which are inferior IMHO sonicly to LP's.
Oh boy, where do I start.

1. That's probably a Pentium 4, which in fact would have to be something like 14 years old at least. The curb is more than occasionally graced with machines 4 or 5 years more recent. Even when insisting on PCI slots to run old soundcards, I'd still want to have something firmly Core 2 Duo era, preferably 45 nm process - substantially more power-efficient and faster. You can generally still run Windows XP on these if so desired.
2. No, onboard audio still is very much a standard feature today (sometimes even advertising semi-fancy circuitry). The occasional mobile device may have dropped the headphone/headset jack, but a typical PC won't be that skimpy.
3. People generally buy USB DACs (or often, DAC / headphone amp combos) as an upgrade or when their onboard audio fails, especially for notebooks where internal cards generally aren't an option. Plus, you can spend a grand on them, too - like the nifty RME ADI-2 DAC (which is a lot more than just a DAC, of course).
4. What would you make of vinyl rips converted to MP3? ;)
5. To most people with semi-intact hearing, lossy files at a decent bitrate out of a somewhat modern encoder (which generally applies to stuff you buy) are sonically transparent. If you have partial hearing loss taking out whole bands, all bets are off though.
 
Hello,

Looking for a power amplifier to drive speakers for around ~150 euros price. Trying to find a proper one that could drive either subwoofer or any other loudspeaker. At the moment I have 6 options (links below). I'm open for alternative options and would love to hear which one and why to choose that or this amplifier.
Any of those 6 plus others you list below are fine, construction is basically the same (acceptable) and the combination of budget (150 U$) and location (Lithuania, looks like nobody read that :rolleyes:) mean only real option you have is whatever you can buy in Lithuania from a serious supplier (Thomann).
For you, EBay might as well be in Mars (for me too).
And again: don´t overthink it.
If you try to follow the zillion different ideas you´ll get here, you´ll go crazy and never do nothing.
 
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A tpyo. He means this guy, a 4-in, 4-out DSP unit.

Specs: S/N >105 dB, output level +12 dBu balanced.
With the output as hot as this, a PA/studio style amplifier with input level controls is a must. OP just needs to find a good one.

OP, what kind of speakers are you using? Any idea on how loud you are typically listening?

I didn't catch what you mean on the first half with the input level controls and what should i find a that is described as good one? S/N ratios means Signal to Noise ratio, so the higher the dB the worse it is? At the moment I dont have any speakers. First of all I want to setup my amplifier and other equipment that is necessary before going to the loudspeakers, etc.

Any of those 6 plus others you list below are fine, construction is basically the same (acceptable) and the combination of budget (150 U$) and location (Lithuania, looks like nobody read that :rolleyes:) mean only real option you have is whatever you can buy in Lithuania from a serious supplier (Thomann).
For you, EBay might as well be in Mars (for me too).
And again: don´t overthink it.
If you try to follow the zillion different ideas you´ll get here, you´ll go crazy and never do nothing.

Indeed. Even tho I'm on a budget I still want to find the best option and consider all the equipment and how its gonna work.
 
I didn't catch what you mean on the first half with the input level controls and what should i find a that is described as good one? S/N ratios means Signal to Noise ratio, so the higher the dB the worse it is?
Didn't check the specific behringer models you started with, but the behringer NX-1000 class d amp has level controls and 1/4" TRS input. Which allows turning down hot signals like +12 db, and allows twisted pair input cables for least noise. The amp is 1/4" TRS, the DSP also has those apparently, 6.3 mm.
I wouldn't buy one, class D is nearly unrepairable by individuals unless the IC has factory PN on it, and behringer gets a lot of inquiries for schematics on PA amps category. I've attempted to repair 4 aged switcher supply products this winter, 2 worked, 2 failures.
Higher signal to noise numbers are better, but since they are tested at full power, from a 500 w/ch amp the published specs are not much use. Noise floor at 1/8 W is more important for home use. As I said, my amps are usually quiet enough to where AM radio or hum interferance is audible with 4 m RCA cables. Going to TRS in the music room last month with a PV8 USB mixer driving & CS800s amp receiving helped a lot with cable hum.
At least Lithuania is in the EU. Much bigger market than mercosur. I don't know how much trouble Lithuania has with theft at the border, even our customs guys often have suspiciously expensive habits.Last year I had a shipment from UK farnell to US farnell to take 3 weeks instead of 2 days, so apparently that one got delayed or stolen at the border & replaced by farnell.
Listening to a radio stream WCPE "tunein.com" from PC right now over 15' TRS cable, to PV-4c in my TV room+kitchen. Those speakers are used coax 6 1/2" out of projection TV on the curb, so speaker distortion covers up any streaming inperfections. In 8"x8"x12" bass reflex enclosure made out of farnell boxes. They are 12 W rated speakers driven by a 140 w/ch amp, so turning down input is important. The NX-1000 is 500 w/ch.
BTW due to extensive ear plug use at work & in military, my ears are flat to 14 khz at age 69. Which is where my SP2-XT speakers drop HF response.
 
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Is this cable a correct choice from PC to T.Racks 4x4 Mini DSP? As much as I understand the signal Voutput from PC to DSP is gonna be divided by 2, because of mini jack to 2x jack? Should i look for mono 3.5mm to mono 6.3mm?
+12 dBu means that output from DSP is 3 volts if that is correct and lets say t.amp e-800 has only 0.7, 26db and 1.4v input control variables how should I fix this problem?

pro snake TPY 2015 KPP – Thomann UK
 
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It will work but it will not be ideal on its own, as you may end up having to turn down the amplifier input gain very far to drown out the ground loop noises. BTDT. (I eventually added one of these plus some balanced TRS --> XLR cables like these. Since then: Silence.)

This being the DIY Audio forum, I would suggest soldering your own, or at least reterminate the above Pro Snake (even though it's supposedly crap to solder) with two Rean NYS228 or NYS202, changing the pinout as follows:
Tip (old) = Tip (new)
Sleeve (old) = Ring (new)
Do not connect = Sleeve (new)

You are consistently listing amplifier candidates with active cooling, generally unregulated fans. I am not sure you know what you are getting yourself into there. These can be decidedly more noisy than you want in your living room.

You know what? Since you do not even have any speakers yet, why not skip the amplifier entirely and go for active speakers, with the benefits of high-order active crossovers and all that jazz? What's your listening distance? If ca. 2m +/- 0.5 m, I'd suggest the trusty Behringer B2031A - about the best bang/buck ever. (That's the price for a pair, exactly as depicted, as usual for Thomann. You would be much worse off with a power amp and some cheapie passive speakers at that price.) For maybe 1-1.5 m, several JBL LSR305 MkII would be a good bet. Any closer and you'd probably have to look for something without annoying hiss levels, which is a bit of a challenge in the lower price range - the Mackie MR524 is supposed to be pretty silent, for example (they've got bigger models as well).

Add some speaker stands and you should be set.

Cabling wise, you would need the same for either solution.
 
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It will work but it will not be ideal on its own, as you may end up having to turn down the amplifier input gain very far to drown out the ground loop noises. BTDT. (I eventually added one of these plus some balanced TRS --> XLR cables like these. Since then: Silence.)

This being the DIY Audio forum, I would suggest soldering your own, or at least reterminate the above Pro Snake (even though it's supposedly crap to solder) with two Rean NYS228 or NYS202, changing the pinout as follows:
Tip (old) = Tip (new)
Sleeve (old) = Ring (new)
Do not connect = Sleeve (new)

You are consistently listing amplifier candidates with active cooling, generally unregulated fans. I am not sure you know what you are getting yourself into there. These can be decidedly more noisy than you want in your living room.

You know what? Since you do not even have any speakers yet, why not skip the amplifier entirely and go for active speakers, with the benefits of high-order active crossovers and all that jazz? What's your listening distance? If ca. 2m +/- 0.5 m, I'd suggest the trusty Behringer B2031A - about the best bang/buck ever. (That's the price for a pair, exactly as depicted, as usual for Thomann. You would be much worse off with a power amp and some cheapie passive speakers at that price.) For maybe 1-1.5 m, several JBL LSR305 MkII would be a good bet. Any closer and you'd probably have to look for something without annoying hiss levels, which is a bit of a challenge in the lower price range - the Mackie MR524 is supposed to be pretty silent, for example (they've got bigger models as well).

Add some speaker stands and you should be set.

Cabling wise, you would need the same for either solution.

Understood. However, i'm still going to look for a best solution that is possible within budget for an amplifier and setup. What is the reason of reterminating?
 
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