How difficult is it to design an amplifier? I've been looking at plate amplifiers at Parts Express. There seems to be a void in a feature rich 2.1 BT plate amplifier. I'm thinking of something with moderate power, smallish size, BT, and perhaps WiFi (though I don't know how that works) along with 5V usb out to charge a phone, or even take audio signal via the USB while charging.
It doesn't have to be a plate amplifier either. I do like the fact that plate amps do take up any real estate and if you really need any LEDs or indicators they could be mounted remote from the plate, like on the front or top of the cabinet.
This could almost be put together from existing off the shelf parts. there is a lot of inexpensive and probably crappy little things out there, and there is expensive high end stuff. Isn't there a market for mid budget quality components?
It doesn't have to be a plate amplifier either. I do like the fact that plate amps do take up any real estate and if you really need any LEDs or indicators they could be mounted remote from the plate, like on the front or top of the cabinet.
This could almost be put together from existing off the shelf parts. there is a lot of inexpensive and probably crappy little things out there, and there is expensive high end stuff. Isn't there a market for mid budget quality components?
There is a constant stream of new and recycled power amplifier designs turning up here and many would meet the the criteria of mid-fi sound but the inclusion of consumer features you mention, such as a charger circuit and wireless connectivity are really another matter. Designing and producing a PCB to suit the microscopic size digital control circuitry for the features wouldn't be much fun for the majority of us either. 'Better to buy finished, cheap add-on boards for these and treat them as separate projects.
At the end of a DIY approach to building you would probably find the cost and effort of essentially copying existing products isn't worthwhile when you can already buy similar at affordable prices. Just fitting high grade or high price parts does not make a design better when your PCB layout sucks, wiring and assembly is bad or it suffers from speaker vibration, unreliable connectors etc.
Note that BTL amplifiers are not necessarily a good thing. They are just a way to make 2 amplifiers rated for low supply voltages do the work of a larger amp that would need higher voltages and more expensive parts. The downside is that they can't drive low impedance speakers as well as conventional designs so damping factor and power into typical 4-6 ohm speakers will probably be a compromise. 8 ohm speakers are becoming a thing of the past now, despite the labels saying whatever the marketing dept. thinks is cool to tell you so it pays to use power amplifier designs that cope with low impedances easily.
At the end of a DIY approach to building you would probably find the cost and effort of essentially copying existing products isn't worthwhile when you can already buy similar at affordable prices. Just fitting high grade or high price parts does not make a design better when your PCB layout sucks, wiring and assembly is bad or it suffers from speaker vibration, unreliable connectors etc.
Note that BTL amplifiers are not necessarily a good thing. They are just a way to make 2 amplifiers rated for low supply voltages do the work of a larger amp that would need higher voltages and more expensive parts. The downside is that they can't drive low impedance speakers as well as conventional designs so damping factor and power into typical 4-6 ohm speakers will probably be a compromise. 8 ohm speakers are becoming a thing of the past now, despite the labels saying whatever the marketing dept. thinks is cool to tell you so it pays to use power amplifier designs that cope with low impedances easily.
You´ll need to be a very dedicated University student, probably 5 years for the main Degree and probably 2 or 3 years widening your focus (you are talking Analog + RF + Digital + a couple more areas for what you mention).
Then apprentice at some Factory which designs their own or maybe a Design Studio who does that for third parties who "just want to manufacture and sell".
Besides the purely Electronics side, you´ll have learn to work to a budget, find parts and suppliers, also people who can make the PCB - enclosure - graphics - packaging , etc. and then find a Distributor which will carry it.
Somebody must do some Advertising, either him or you, unless you accept making just commodity level generic stuff, which can be sold under various house brands.
How would I know?
Dedicate efforts towards the amplifier/power supply, don't fret about things that are already done, mass produced, and are cheap. BT is easy. Go to Walmart and get a BT receiver device that is labeled for car use, comes with USB charger, standard 3.5mm audio output jack, cost is $7. Disassemble and remove cheap Chinese lithium battery. Solder bridge momentary switch so it only operates when powered, and reassemble.. Place USB charger after mains power switch.
. Place USB charger after mains power switch.Not too difficult if you are a well-educated electronic engineer and you are not aiming too high in performance. A degree from a reasonable institution might be enough.bobberner said:
If you are starting from scratch then it might take 3-7 years to learn enough, depending on how much maths and physics you already know and how bright you are.
It gets more difficult to design something better, so many people design something worse and then convince themselves that the flaws are actually desirable features.
Or you can just cobble together bits of other people's designs.
Also depends on your definition of 'design'. On one end there's ground up design from scratch, and for that DF96 hit the target well. That's engineering.
Often 'design' is used for the process of cutting and pasting bits and pieces of other people's designs, change a transistor here, a cap there, often for the worse, and proudly announce your 'design'. This requires less knowledge and experience and is a source of great fun for many. Often results are not bad at all.
Jan
Often 'design' is used for the process of cutting and pasting bits and pieces of other people's designs, change a transistor here, a cap there, often for the worse, and proudly announce your 'design'. This requires less knowledge and experience and is a source of great fun for many. Often results are not bad at all.
Jan
> This could almost be put together from existing off the shelf parts.
Exactly. And if Parts Express thought they had a void in mid-range feature-rich amps, they would call their Asian suppliers and wish for a product sales-sheet. Scaling an existing product to a specific market size is trivial. BT/USB are tack-on features.
The question is: Can you SELL it?
Exactly. And if Parts Express thought they had a void in mid-range feature-rich amps, they would call their Asian suppliers and wish for a product sales-sheet. Scaling an existing product to a specific market size is trivial. BT/USB are tack-on features.
The question is: Can you SELL it?
Silly in that one needs to define features, costs. I find the chassis/appearance to be the biggest challenge and expense.
Reading Bob Cordell's book is a good place to start. Chapter 4 describes what it takes, but even then it does not address the chassis design.
You design me a chassis, I have power amps designs to trade.
Last edited:
Thanks for the feedback folks. This was more of a rhetorical question but there are some very interesting answers.
From a design standpoint, I hate to see multiple boxes wired together. I also dislike that it was always a little tedious (but getting better) to flip switches on different devices to watch a particular program on TV or DVD/VCR, or select CD/Cassette/FM and then turn the tuner or cd player on. Look at how complicated TV remotes are, and why do we need a cable box anyway????
I do like using Alexa to listen to FM radio (reception is poor where I live) and also streaming services. We just got a FireStick with Alexa and that is nice being able to say Watch Bosch and it goes there and starts. Prior, I had to set the tv input to Apple TV, then scroll to find the Prime app, and then to find the program. My wife can't do that and therefore is always watching the Hallmark channel or HGTV.
From a design standpoint, I hate to see multiple boxes wired together. I also dislike that it was always a little tedious (but getting better) to flip switches on different devices to watch a particular program on TV or DVD/VCR, or select CD/Cassette/FM and then turn the tuner or cd player on. Look at how complicated TV remotes are, and why do we need a cable box anyway????
I do like using Alexa to listen to FM radio (reception is poor where I live) and also streaming services. We just got a FireStick with Alexa and that is nice being able to say Watch Bosch and it goes there and starts. Prior, I had to set the tv input to Apple TV, then scroll to find the Prime app, and then to find the program. My wife can't do that and therefore is always watching the Hallmark channel or HGTV.
Ok, be kind here, but what is difficult about designing a chassis? It is simply a box with enough space to mount your boards, switches, etc, and with a heat sink and attractive cover. Isn't it? Granted I have never designed a chassis but I have seen pictures of them.
I see you have no clue.
Ask any designer: once you commit to actual production, the "electronic" side of design seems trivial compared to the "mechanicals".
You´ll go crazy first packing everything in a compact, practical layout, debugging hum, interference, thermal problems, plus picking the actual parts (pots/switches/connectors/heatsinks/etc.) , actual transformer, THEN designing a chassis, THEN designing graphics and aesthetics in general, THEN finding suitable suppliers, THEN paying and waiting for delivery.
As a side note, IF you find an error in the electric design, lr want to mod something, often you can use the basic same PCB or schematic, modding some values, pulling some parts or even adding a couple tack soldered on the back of the PCB.
Now try to do the same to a finished chassis if you want to add an extra pot or switch, or leave a couple holes unused ... including the text silkscreened besides them.
You remind me of a manager I once had. He was Head of IT in an important UK company but seemed to have no idea about what his staff actually did - I don't know if he had worked his way up and forgotten, or come in from a different discipline. Anyway, whenever someone said that something might be difficult to implement his response was "That is just a piece of code". He may have been puzzled why his department had to pay high salaries to SET graduates from the UK's best universities in order to write this simple code.bobberner said:
Design always involves 'cobbling together' other people's technologies, although in very rare cases, a new technology might be required.DF96 said:
What is wrong in using the advantages of known technologies?
I am increasingly noticing, this forum is burdened by members who do not like the presence of less fortunate members. Because they were socially lucky to have the means to attend and obtain degrees in engineering, they look down on anyone attending these fora if a poster's way of writing indicates they don't use the usual tell-tale engineering jargon.
I haven't seen any evidence of looking down on, discouraging, or otherwise of the non pros among us here by the very knowledgeable and well studied members. Indeed quite the opposite. I myself have learned much in the short time I've been on these forums.
However, sometimes and quite understandably, folk who have spent the better part of their adult lives learning a trade will defend themselves against claims of "anyone can do it, it's easy".
It's also important to realise that in engineering disciplines, there is a culture of playing devil's advocate and of pointing out the potential problems in another's assertions, designs, etcetera. And it is no bad thing - it leads to better engineering. The trick is to not take it (too) personally - think about what's being said, and leverage it as a learning opportunity.
Evidence shows that it is very difficult to design a high-performance amplifier. Well-educated electronic engineers are the worst designers. Instead of audio amplifiers, they design voltage regulators in accord with Control Theory.
A degree from a reasonable institution doesn't mean much. What is learned is not necessarily understood. Some personal qualities such as constructive ability, a sound sense and good taste are not acquirable through training, you either have them or you don't. There are no schools with amplifier design program. The audio branch does not have a dedicated theory.
A degree from a reasonable institution doesn't mean much. What is learned is not necessarily understood. Some personal qualities such as constructive ability, a sound sense and good taste are not acquirable through training, you either have them or you don't. There are no schools with amplifier design program. The audio branch does not have a dedicated theory.
But what is the reason for this difficulty? Definitely, it is not the electronics, but 'probably' something that science has not yet understood.N101N said:
We understand how biological ears work: the inner ear has liquid filled canals, with their walls covered with sensory whisker-cells, that are sensitive to particular frequencies. So, electronically, this is like a large array of tuned LC circuits, that are slightly less than critically damped. To add more complexity to how biological hearing works, these sensory whisker-cells all have their nerves that connect to the brain's auditory area! This means, an electronic microphone, is a very rough approximation at how a biogical ear senses sound.
That was the sensory part, which is 'easier' to understand, but what about what happens inside the brain? How does it generate auditory perception of the different frequencies, and how does it deal with complex auditory signals?
The following link gives only some details of how the auditory area is organised. But, what do the various neural circuits do to create auditory perception?
The Auditory Cortex - Neuroscience - NCBI Bookshelf
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.