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Sansui 6060 - power on issue
Sansui 6060 - power on issue
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Old 6th June 2019, 07:23 PM   #11
Ian Finch is offline Ian Finch  Australia
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Just to be certain that every cap on the protection board is in good order, you could also replace the others on that PCB. They are associated with various power supplies and will all have to be replaced eventually. I can't read all the relevant numbers of the caps from the schematic but you have the PCB and components to refer directly, so just go through and list all of them systematically, then when you replace them all, you'll know that the board is OK for another 40 years and you don't have to go back and pick up the threads of what you did or didn't do earlier.

Note that modern caps are a lot smaller and you may not get the old axial style at all in some values, if they are needed. (that's where the leads are in line with the axis of the cap's body) . I suggest not fitting caps of less than 16V rating either, just for reliability.
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Old 6th June 2019, 09:40 PM   #12
mbz is offline mbz  Australia
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSpokane View Post
Attached is a scan that shows where I tested and the values.

I measured 35.7V at the intersection of R08/R06 and at the intersection of R07/R05. I used the transistor heat sink / housing to ground to. Is that ok? If 35.7V is too high... what value should that be? Both channels work fine and the receiver sounds great when/if the relay engages. So I'm guessing maybe if the voltage is way off I measured wrong?

Can you redo the measurement with the black meter probe connected to any
black speaker post. Looking for less than +/-10mV in a perfect world. Less than
+/-20mV is great and less than +/-50mV is tolerable. +35Vdc would certainly
exercise the protection circuit.
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Old 6th June 2019, 10:55 PM   #13
tauro0221 is offline tauro0221  United States
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Location: Victoria,TX
Hi,
Suggestion if you check the voltage at the positive side of capacitor c601 that it is connected to the base of the transistor TR631??? if it is reading 0 the relay should be enable and a positive voltage will disable the enabling of the output relay. The input it is coming from the speaker output.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:11 AM   #14
DanielSpokane is offline DanielSpokane  United States
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbz View Post
Can you redo the measurement with the black meter probe connected to any
black speaker post. Looking for less than +/-10mV in a perfect world. Less than
+/-20mV is great and less than +/-50mV is tolerable. +35Vdc would certainly
exercise the protection circuit.
I re-measured DC from the R08/R06 connection to the ground pole on the back of the amp (instead of putting the ground on the transistor housing) and now come up with 0.030V for R05/R07 and 0.040V for RO8/R06. Much less than the 35V was measuring before. Note the voltage was higher (above 0.05V before I when I first turned it on then slowly dropped to those values).
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:43 AM   #15
mbz is offline mbz  Australia
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Join Date: Jul 2013
OK, so what you've got is a delayed relay click. The delay could
be cuased by excessive dc voltage/transients after power up or
a fault in the protection circuit possibly faulty "timing" of the
mute period.

Would be helpful that you monitor the dc voltage after power up a few
times. Previous post mentions 0.05Vdc, if that's as bad as it gets then
it's not the issue, expect to see 0.6->maybe a few? 3-10?V

C602 (330/6.3V) is the main cap for mute timing, consider replacing it.
ZD601 is also a candidate.

Try to get the following voltage measurements after the mute period but
before the relay click, ie, relay click is delayed by fault.
measure TR603 base and ZD604 anode then cathode to ground (black spkr post).
TR601b and TR602b also to GND may be useful. Wait about 5 seconds then
perform the measurements before the relay click.
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Old 12th June 2019, 05:24 AM   #16
DanielSpokane is offline DanielSpokane  United States
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbz View Post
OK, so what you've got is a delayed relay click. The delay could
be cuased by excessive dc voltage/transients after power up or
a fault in the protection circuit possibly faulty "timing" of the
mute period.

Would be helpful that you monitor the dc voltage after power up a few
times. Previous post mentions 0.05Vdc, if that's as bad as it gets then
it's not the issue, expect to see 0.6->maybe a few? 3-10?V

C602 (330/6.3V) is the main cap for mute timing, consider replacing it.
ZD601 is also a candidate.

Try to get the following voltage measurements after the mute period but
before the relay click, ie, relay click is delayed by fault.
measure TR603 base and ZD604 anode then cathode to ground (black spkr post).
TR601b and TR602b also to GND may be useful. Wait about 5 seconds then
perform the measurements before the relay click.
Sorry for the delay. I was tied up with some family stuff. Now back on this.

I'm having trouble finding ZD604. I can find ZD601, ZD602, and ZD603... but can't find ZD604. Is it on a different board?

I ran some voltage measurements using my Silgent 3088 and EasyDMM on TR601B, TR602B and TR603B. Attached are screenshots of the outputs. Note, for some reason now the relay seems to be opening about 1 to 2 seconds after I turn it on. I'm not sure if just sitting unused for a few weeks has changed something but the relay is not delaying like it was. I'm not getting my hopes up... and I'm sure this is short lived... but keep that in mind when you look at the graphs of the voltages at TR601B, TR602B, TR603B.

Note the boxes below the graph give the voltage statistics. The "Data" box is the final voltage (IE where it stabilized at).

What do you think?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TR601B.jpg (188.5 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg TR602B.jpg (196.4 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg TB603B.jpg (186.2 KB, 21 views)
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Old 12th June 2019, 05:26 AM   #17
DanielSpokane is offline DanielSpokane  United States
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Note the screen shots are in order TR601B then TR602B then TR603B. I thought the file name would show up.
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:19 PM   #18
mbz is offline mbz  Australia
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Regarding ZD604, it's the diode across the relay coil, see schematic.

It's marked as ZD603 on the silkscreen, see pic.


I'm unsure of the time scale on the graphs supplied. eg, TR601B appears to show a "step"
voltage lasting 20 seconds. Such a voltage would explain the delay relay activation but
you are saying the relay is operating after 1-2 seconds which I would think is too
quick ie, the timing cap is charing up too quick, suggest replacing C602 330uf/6.3V
with 330uf/16or 25 or...V
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0ZD604.JPG (43.8 KB, 13 views)
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